Looking for Lewis and Clark-1

186 thoughts on “Looking for Lewis and Clark-1

  1. Jake Faulker:
    You popping out of a box as a clown during Halloween is appropriate.

    I would like to think this type of thinking is a treat but to me is a trick that F played on your mind.

    If stars & or planets (other than earth) have anything to do with the poem or finding the treasure, I will eat my hat with pumpkin sauce on the side.


    Good luck with the celestial solve.

    You probably ought to start cooking your hat so it will be soft enough to eat.


    • WoodyBogg and Jake -. In the Santa Fe book signing, Forrest made it clear that the person he sent his requested fly fishing stick figure to added the stars, and she attached hs fishing line to one of them. But she might have intuitively picked up on what he was putting down, like I often do.

      What was also interesting is that Doug Preston mentioned seeing Forest famous hat in his house. The day I Forrest did the book signing in Santa Fe I was texting back and forth with a friend about having discovered Stella Lake first on the blogs, when Dal posted a picture of that hat in Forrest’s Scrapbook 126. We were discussing his recent trip through Nevada and his geologic observations and photos there of the Great Basin area. Stella Lake it’s located in Great Basin National Park. And I am reading. Preston’s book Called Lost City of the monkey god about the White City Discovery in Honduras, which made me remember the Stelae Stone monuments I saw in a similar book about that area called jungles of Stone. Dial photoshopped in a Stella in front of Forrest in SB 126..


    • My hat is already cooked & soft Woody.
      It started cooking as soon as I put it on my head & had it for about 6 years.

      Just might have to season it a bit with something other than salt.

      Remember, someone has to find the chest in order for me to eat it & I don’t see that happening anytime soon….


  2. This scenario makes the most sense to me.

    F tells his wife in SF he’s going on a fishing trip with some buddy’s in the Rocky’s & will be gone for about a week. She probably asks where & who, but F doesn’t know where, only the people he’s fishing with do & they’re probably mentioned by first name mumblings she doesn’t hear. OK honey, enjoy yourself & catch the big one. He plans on letting the BIG ONE go.

    The day he sets out on his trip he notices his Jeep is running rough (by design) & decides to bring it to his mechanic in or near SF & asks his mechanic if he can get a rental vehicle for about a week until his Jeep is fixed. F had done his research earlier & gets a vehicle with no LoJack or GPS tracking devices.

    He transfers his fishing gear from his vehicle to the rental along with the treasure at the shop & tells Wright he will be back in a bout a week to pick up his Jeep.

    F has cash for all the transactions including gas along the way to MT.
    F leaves his cell phone behind as a precaution for tracking.
    F stops at all 4 states.
    There is no way to track F from SF to Bozeman. Not even the mileage on the vehicle can say where he went only how many miles he traveled.

    The starting point is SF on the documentation, which is fine with him considering if the rental docs got noticed in any of the other states beside his home state & town, people would think that state, where he rented the car (like Montana) would be the state he hid the treasure in.
    Only makes sense to me.

    On the trip from SF to MT he stops at camp sites & has a tent & pays cash to stay out of hotels where more documentation can lead to a path.
    He may even switched license plates before entering the camp sites just in case they want that info or take a pic of the plate & he gives a phony name where he’s staying.

    No trail left.

    He gets to the Madison’s & hasn’t slept much since he left SF. You wouldn’t either if you did what he did. He drives up a Forest Service Rd where a creek is & parks where not too many go. I believe this is done when it’s still dark morning & finishes in the afternoon.

    No detection by anyone except for your Griz.

    I’ve watched to many Columbo episodes.


    • Jake – Excellent.

      The part about it still being dark in the morning I just tried to post it Dal’s but was unsuccessful. What if the Blaze is the Morning Star, Venus, reflected in the water while he was fly fishing? That would explain why we need a flashlight and a sandwich, and any Wise Man would be looking for a Star in the East. And any Star fly fishermen like Forrest would be getting up Before Sunrise to catch the Star Rainbow. That all goes with the new book cover.


      • F could have taken a private jet ride but the rental agency docs in that city/state could still be active as well as the jet ride.

        He went alone in there from the start at SF.

        Get your head out of the stars & the flashlight & sandwich are not helpful in finding the chest.
        Give me a some food for thought &not.


          • What if it’s cloudy & you can’t see the stars or planets?

            You can see these starts & planets in the morning before sunrise just about anywhere in the US. That tells me they are not connected in any way with clues or hints in the poem & therefore will not lead you to the chest.

            Doesn’t make any sense at all.


          • Jake – Forrest hiding the bronze chest, out at his special fly fishing spot in nature, doesn’t make any sense either. Remember that he originally was going to take his life and fall upon the chest, because he thought he had terminal cancer. He was not planning a treasure hunt.


          • Hiding the treasure in a special fishing spot makes a lot of sense.
            Using the stars & planets to guide you there just doesn’t work.

            If the poem is straightforward which I think it is then you have to disregard all the other planets except earth.

            How about heavy loads & water high on your creek instead of lights in the sky.

            You have given so many great ideas & places but don’t fall out of the box just because the cover in his new book has him fishing for stars. Besides, his new book doesn’t have the double omegas at the end & probably not in the book at all.


          • Jake – Okay, visualize a Jack In the Box right now, and me popping out as the Clown. That’s how I operate on The Chase. I don’t stay in the Box very long.

            And Forrest is an expert pilot and has a strong in interest in the fur trappers and explorers like Lewis and Clark. So I think celestial navigation figured prominently in his original final plan. But that’s just me and my imagination talking.



          • You popping out of a box as a clown during Halloween is appropriate.

            I would like to think this type of thinking is a treat but to me is a trick that F played on your mind.

            If stars & or planets (other than earth) have anything to do with the poem or finding the treasure, I will eat my hat with pumpkin sauce on the side.


            Good luck with the celestial solve.


          • Trick or Treat?

            Forrest said the chest is exposed to fires?

            I think he said it was “exposed”.

            Everything is exposed to its surroundings.

            Gold melts around 1950F
            Bronze around 1500
            Crystalline wax at about 200F

            Why do they think the chest is in a place where forest fires burn from 1200F to 2000F?

            It’s wet all right.

            My pumpkin head is getting ready to turn back to a …….

            No one has made me eat my hat & will never happen cause you guys can’t prove me wrong.
            Munch away on your candy corn.


          • Thanks anyway Lisa,
            I already know what Mother Nature can do to it’s own in detail, I don’t need a book to explain.

            Microcrystalline wax melts before 200F.

            What did he seal the olive jar with?

            How many times did he dip it?

            Doesn’t matter, the 20K bio is ash if the chest is not wet in water.


        • Great article Lisa,
          I figure F put his items in the jar & placed the jar & lid in a 5 gallon bucket & filled it with nitrogen which rids the moisture from everything in the bucket.
          He then takes the lid & screws it on tight.

          The Microcrystaline wax is on the stove melted & at the perfect temp to dip the jar & lid to seal it.

          From reading that article you supplied, Oxygen & moisture are your worst enemies for preservation.

          After he seals the Olive jar, he either puts it in another capsule that is made of some sort of corrosion proof metal or alloy or just wraps the olive jar in some sort of fireproof material & puts it in the chest or wraps it & puts it in the capsule.

          The reason I think he wrapped the Olive jar is because of the other items would be in contact with the wax on the jar & the vibrations & temperature fluctuations from Mother Nature along with the constant contact of the other items in the chest would eventually compromise some of the exterior seal & maybe even cause moisture to be in contact with the tin lid which when exposed to moisture would deteriorate much quicker on the outside even though there is no moisture inside & the tin lid would rust & eventually corrode & let the O2 & moisture in.

          The wood lining of the chest is also another hint that it is not out in the open considering wood can combust around 500-600 deg. Although there is very little air in the chest for this to happen but in wild fires in the woods where there are fire tornadoes whipping the air around so fast, I would have to think the chest is not air tight & therefore, the wood lining would not last but most of the contents would survive but I don’t think the Olive jar would make it through the blaze.

          The reason I have brought this up is to find out if it is underwater which I think it is even though said it’s not “under water” or buried or out in the open field or in a grove of trees.

          I will rule out grove of trees & maybe more.


          • Jake – Thank you for that excellent analysis. I really appreciate those from you.

            As to the grove of trees, that is why my square looking open space with the great view, and the fallen Lodgepole Pine well seasoned tree for Forrest and the bronze chest to hide under, is so attractive.Hidden but not buried, surrounded by trees, and sheltered from the elements. Except for maybe a really extremely hot and windy fire tornado….

            It was great how David Olds and Shiloh were able to make a business out of all the burned trees from that fire storm in New Mexico on their property.


          • Jake – I like this article, because of all the quotes it contains about how the bronze chest might be hidden, including Forrest’s suggestion that we turn over a log:

            And his pondering about where he might hide it from public lands:

            “Now, what if I wanted to secret a can of Dr. Pepper under a rock in the cooling waters of a rivulet somewhere in my allotted public acreage?”

            There is just such a rivulet next to my hidey spot for his Dr. Pepper.

            It also has some great pictures of the bronze chest. Are we sure that the lining is wood, or made to look like wood, when the chest was cast back in 11:50 AD plus or minus? I don’t know if Forrest ever answered that question.


          • Thanks Lisa,
            I can’t always give a pat on the back for everything someone posts.

            I’m trying to recreate what he did & what he was thinking to get to the bottom of the resting place whether it’s buried in dirt under rocks or water. I don’t believe everything he says & it seems unlikely to me it’s in the open or under a grove of trees that can burn & compromise some of the contents.

            There must be protection from the most harshest elements as fire.

            A log doesn’t cut it for protection. You mizewell pour some gas on it.

            I’m waiting to see what the white browed owl will say tonight at the book signing.



          • Jake – I watched the live feed video on the wireless at a local restaurant here:


            Forrest mentioned sealing the olive jar with wax, while his wife watched Dancing with the Stars. But my favorite quote was when Forrest said anyone who had an itch they can’t scratch could ask Shiloh a question. Thanks, Forrest. I enjoyed watching Shiloh through the whole broadcast.


          • Funny coincidence we were chatting about stars & the jar recently.

            Shiloh squashed the treasure hunt related questions & I am disappointed he took the fun out of the Q & A.

            I do understand that Forrest cannot hear as others but they could have at least answered some of those questions to send us down some rabbit holes.

            I’m running out of rabbit holes dammit!


          • Jake – I understand why Shiloh was screening those questions. And I really enjoyed watching the broadcast. It is fun for me after these several years to watch Forrest speak; to see his personality in a candid situation. I hope I am able to do that in such a fashion when I am 87.

            Meanwhile, I did some more research on our fire discussion. This is an intense and emotional movie:



          • I think F talked to Shiloh before the interview & told him he didn’t want to answer any questions that may lead to a hint & this particular showing should be about his new book.

            It would be nothing short of a miracle if I make to that ripe age.

            Forest fires have bothered me when it comes to hiding his treasure in the wood.
            The glass jar would surely be compromised in fire, so I would have to think that he figured this as well.


          • Jake – Forrest mentioned at the book signing that he sent his stories from his Memoir to the Library of Congress and got a nice letter in return. Do you think he also sent the original or a copy of his 32,000 word autobiography to them and just didn’t mention it? Then he wouldn’t care if a copy in the glass jar was destroyed by a forest fire, right?


          • Jake – Thank you for that Library of Congress link. I think I have heard that interview before.

            When Forrest was explaining his involvement in the Buffalo Bill Center of the West, Shiloh chimed in with how interesting the basement is at the Museum. Which reminded me that I still want to get my hands on this Oral History Forrest did, located in Box 9, Folder 125:


            I still think I will have to go alone in there in a sleeping bag overnight to get access to it, though. Unless bob knows another way in, that is.


          • Jake -. I learned some new things about the airplanes Forrest has flown and owned in that latest link you provided. Thank you! I had read the link he published quite some time ago for his Airforce squadron, though.


        • WoodyBogg – This is from a spiritual blog and has some good information. I like the rainbow reference:


          We call a planet ‘Morningstar’ when it emerges over the horizon before the sun rises. The planet Venus is part of the year Morningstar: depending on the angle with the Sun, Venus is either Morningstar or Eveningstar for us. (Of course Venus is not a star at all but a planet: in ancient times people thought Venus was a star, hence the name.)

          The Morningstar and the adjustment of the compass.

          Navigators can calculate the exact time of the day when Venus should rise above the horizon, and also in what direction they should look to see Venus. That is very nice, because then the ship’s compass can be compared and adjusted, so that the ship can sail a true and correct course, so that it will reach the destination.

          The rise of the Morningstar.

          When Venus rises it shines beautifully. This is caused by the atmosphere which breaks the light of Venus into many different colors, just like the rainbow. This only happens when Venus is still very low in the skies, and Venus shines very brightly and very white. And of course it should be very dark, because in the light of the rising sun this phenomenon cannot be seen.

          Once the time of rise has been calculated the navigator sharply watches the East: there the Morningstar must rise. He waits and waits: any moment now! And suddenly: there is Venus! So, even if you know when and where Venus should appear, it still takes time and you must wait till it really is visible. And with great joy you can see the beauty of the Morningstar.


          • WoodyBogg – Further down in that article:

            When Venus is just visible it casts a narrow, clear silvery path on the water, in which the sea can be beautifully observed. Even seabirds can be spotted. Outside this path-of-light it is very dark


  3. Lisa –

    If you are on FB tell me where you live or what your photo looks like and I will find you. I would like to speak with you…. Thanks


    • inthechaseto – I removed my FB and Instagram accounts recently for personal reasons, so I am not reachable via social media. And I am not comfortable publishing my contact info on a blog. If you include your email here, I can respond that way. I would welcome the opportunity to connect with you on a more personal basis. I have so enjoyed conversing with you over these past years.


  4. Jake Faulker:
    Makes sense Bob,
    They were long dead.

    F&D limited there supplies on that trip & a camera was never mention although there are pics of them.
    What else did he take on the trip not mentioned?

    Funny how we can count the pics taken on one hand.
    Where are the other pics sitting? In his home?

    I don’t think F ever mentionedthe Corps of Discovery by name, but I could be wrong.

    I don’t think anything he hasn’t mentioned could be a hint but may be a clue, but I am not in that camp.

    I try to look at his books holding hints (text only) that will help with the clues in the poem.

    The poem clues seem to be places or things at places that he has obviously been & considers them all special.

    I’m very interested in that big clump of mountain area above Hebgen, below Spanish Peaks & between the Madison & Gallatin rivers.

    That’s my X

    Jake –

    It is interesting that although you use a completely different method you arrive at the same search area as Zap and HMA. They place no weigh whatsoever on North Gallatin IH. Rather Zap places a lot of emphasis on the double letters than Fenn favors like the LL in Graciella. That guy sees even more hints than JD!

    I will add that Forrest’s mother died in Cameron and in some traditions forever lives on there. The area of interest isn’t in town it’s where the West Fork Cabins are. Maybe you know that.

    Sine Mike does not have an email update thing, I assume that neither you nor Zap will ever see this comment.

    If you read this and have the time may I recommend you read a new commenter on HoD? Sherif Billy. He has some great idea, puts things together well, but he thinks they lead him to New Mexico. He understands that Lightning is significant but doesn’t follow to MT.



    • Thanks for sharing your nutz Lug.
      Got to stick with North Intrastate Gallatin Highway as -nigh- seeing my other interps of clues bring me near (1200′) of this highway. You put in on the Madison as stated in TFTW where F did & from where you put in, you float downstream to the border of YNP & I see YNP as no place for the meek as in joseph. No hunting or trapping allowed in there. You stop at this imaginary border & there’s a bridge & a road right there. NIGH. (near) double meaning.

      I will stay away from double letters. Zap can find way too many coincidences & JDA is not far behind although has tightened the ship a lot.

      Did JDA get the boot from dal’s as I. Hasn’t been on there lately.

      Thanks for the “brilliant” comment about -nigh- back on dal’s site.

      I don’t know where the WF cabins are. I do know where the WF is.


        • Hi Lisa, how are you? Is Sun Valley building a solid snow base for ski season?

          your mention of camp cabins reminded me of Fenn Haven. I realize the buildings are gone, but wondered if your terrific memory can recall the location of Fennhaven? Thank you for any help on the location. Anna


          • Hi Anna – We have had a few storms that dropped a few inches of snow, and there are remnants of that above at 7000 feet. I can see in a weather forecast there are more smaller storms on the way in the next few weeks.

            I took a Google searching class recently at our local library, so now it’s easy for me to find things on Dal’s site. Here you go:

            on July 27, 2015 at 8:01 am said:
            Fenn Haven was in West Yellowstone, on Boundary Street, just a couple blocks down from where the Dude Motel is today. Remnants of the Fenn Haven cabins are still there.

            West Fork Cabin Camp and Campground is about 35 miles north and west of West Yellowstone on Hwy 287, heading toward Ennis, MT.

            When Forrest’s mom and dad sold Fenn Haven they still came out to Yellowstone every summer but they bought an Airstream trailer and stayed at West Fork. Forrest’s mom died of a heart attack at West Fork while they were staying out there one summer.



          • Anna – Just keep sharing and playing with us here on this blog. I enjoy your company. And if you go to the West Yellowstone area to look, just take me with you.


  5. Anyway, Lisa I like the idea of crossing a named creek seeing “creek” is in the poem. I would have to rule out a dry creek seeing water is also mentioned & dry creeks usually are not labeled.

    Yes, your creek is about 500′ from your spot. The problem I have is there is no clearing to see the creek, just surrounded by trees. Maybe that’s what he meant by “in the wood”. I tend to think it means being in the woods in general & not in a desert which he has said.

    The people who have been within 500′ & 200′ must have told F they were on a specific labeled trail or creek but either way there is a label involved unless those people gave him coordinates as you did which I doubt because lots of people including myself do not have those devices & don’t need them. Creeks & trails have a definitive starting point & end as well as definitive edges unlike mountains, buttes, draws, basins, valleys etc. so I would have to rule those ambiguous areas out even though they are labeled.

    It’s also possible that where the chest is hidden is also labeled like a waterfall, but you still need a trail or creek in order for them to convey to F where they were & what direction they were going.


    • Jake -. A Spring Creek emanates from the hillside next to my spot. Fresh water, and it creates the pathway in the defile up to that pyramid-like square flat area. And if you could see the Google Earth 2D file I sent you, showing the view from there, you could see my double Omega blaze, formed in the Cabin Creek below, as well as Forrest’s thumb in the meadow, created by where Forest Creek meets Cabin Creek. I have always imagined a Blackfeet Indian teepee right in that spot, and there may well have been one, based on the story of Osborne Russell’s travels back “in there”. I imagined that Forrest found my spot while looking for arrowheads after reading Russell’s accounts. And that area looks perfect for fishing for Rainbows, while being alone in there.


    • Interesting…..measuring from the parking lot at Goose Lake, Red River, NM to my spot is 500 feet. I measured. Forrest knew exactly where I was. My mistake in sharing that with him.


  6. Funny,
    I just poked in on dal’s site & most if not all are not talking about places just a lot of mumbo jumbo about theory & what the words in the poem mean.

    We are way past kindergarten.


    • Jake – I have always been mature for my age, and at 54, I can run circles around most men younger than me. And at 79, I think Forrest could run circles around most men younger than him. I have been way past kindergarten since the beginning of The Chase, when I emailed Forrest all of these coordinates, locations and blazes in March of 2013. And I still haven’t made it out to my spot to date. Frustrating…


      • Jake – So I passed an older man climbing the steepest part of a trail I also do here, called Adams Gulch, and I stopped to ask his age. He said 81 going on 82. He was breathing hard and using hiking poles, but plugging along at a really good clip. I asked if he could do a 3.7 mile trail with a 700 foot elevation gain a few times in one day, round trip. He said that would be no problem for him. I have seen him on this Adams Gulch trail several times going the opposite direction from me. So there.


        • I see the spring creek but not sure it is a spring seeing the flow comes from a ways away.

          There are many at the age of 80 or so that are in good shape & can hike 4 miles 4 times a day but probably not every day.

          I think F would have been capable of getting to your spot at 80 but I also have questions.

          Has the parking lot had people or cars there & how many in all the times you have gone?

          He has said no one was around when he came back from the final trip but there may have been cars there.

          I’m not sold on the idea of a small clearing in the woods for his resting place. I would like to have a little view before my vision blurs due to the sleeping pills. Maybe looking at a creek where there are critters scurrying & flying around with a possible view of some mountains.


          • Jake – the parking lot next to the forest service campground at the trailhead is very small I have only seen one to two cars each time I’ve gone. This last time there was a horse trailer only when I headed out. But he could have easily parked across the in fly fishing pull outs next to the Madison or in the day use area next to them.

            When I get frustrated that I can’t go on the chase to my spot, I head up North of here to Galena Lodge or Galena Pass, and I often stopped at this perfect Oxbow in the creek, to imagine Forest fly fishing at my spot and then heading up the hillside, just like in this photo:


            It’s a rest area right off the highway, complete with a picnic table and a fallen tree like the one at my spot.:

            The elevation is about 7000 ft and the water was ice cold. It was 60 degrees today so I had my flip-flops on and it was very convenient to dip my feet in. Worth the cold….


          • Jake -. And I really really wish you could see the view depicted in this Google Earth 2D link of my spot. It really gives a clear perspective of the expansive views of the creeks, meadows and mountains Forrest could see from.there. Do you have Google Earth? If so, couldn’t you just put in my spot’s coordinates and then change it to 2D?



          • Jake – One more post from Dal’s to quote Forest himself about that photo I included here, takien on the 205 Red Black Green trail, looking down on the hillside blaze above my spot. There is an isolated parking spot at the trailhead over at Potamogeton Park out Beaver Creek, where Forrest could have parked and hiked or rode a horse for old times sake to my spot as well.

            Lisa Cesari
            on October 14, 2017 at 8:21 am said:
            Colomtnman – And the next line after the one where Donnie takes the picture is this one:

            “I asked Donnie to take my picture (I was proud of the coon skin cap my mother had made for me) as I surveyed the land that had not changed in a million years.”

            What better place to hide the bronze chest, than in a landscape that Forrest describes himself in this way?


          • Jake – Within days of emailing Forrest the description of my blaze, that looks like it’s sitting on one side of a face on that hillside, including the exact coordinates, this photo on his blog, that I connected to every day, changed to show bright areas on one side of Forrest’s face corresponding to my blaze’s location on the “face” on that hillside. Explain that!



          • The sunlight in that picture on F’s face can be only one thing. The sunlight.

            That’s just how it is interpreted by the camera at times.

            I don’t see that as any hint or clue but more of something you want to see.

            Maybe you can explain better cause I don’t see it. I also don’t see the pyramaid, triangle & other things you said. Why would you want to view in 2D when we see in 3D?


          • Jake – That’s OK. I very much appreciate all the time you have spent humoring me thus far…thank you. I am probably not explaining very well. But I do know what I see and what was there previously in that photo and how it changed. Little points of light on his left forehead left eyebrow and nose and chin. Photoshopped in.


          • Lisa,
            Some things you explain well & others you don’t as everyone else including me.

            OK, the pic looks Photoshoped.
            But why?

            So you saw the same photo before it was doctored?
            Please show us that photo.
            That would help.

            I just don’t see the exact coordinates on his face.


          • Jake – The photo was changed after I sent my blaze’s map coordinates to Forrest via email in March/April of 2013. The points of light directly correspond to the way the blaze points looked on the “face” on the hillside.

            Forrest was either confirming my blaze points, wondering if I’d notice the photoshopped changes to the picture, or he was doing it to make fun of me and my theory. The photo looked exactly the same minus the bright points on Forrest’s face. I had no reason to copy and save the photo before the changes, so, no…I do not have a copy.


          • Lisa,
            I see the pic on F’s site relating to dal’s blog.
            The pic seems to be photoshoped but I also think F messes with people & he is likely messing with dal with this pic considering he is in the pic.

            Maybe it has to do with dal saying the blaze is white although that was set straight by him.

            I wouldn’t put much stock in photos but I do like your spot & was doable by F then.

            Where is your WWWH & canyon & Brown that leads you there?


          • Jake – Thank you for liking my spot.

            WWWH – Madison Junction

            Canyon Down – Madison Canyon

            home of Brown – Hebgen Lake if we are talking about a ‘Big Brown’ that ff caught with his Dad, which would be a personal colloquialism. There was another famous 10lb Brown caught on the Madison just above the Cabin Creek confluence, so to “put in” at the trailhead below that day use area works also. Did we talk about the fact that.Boat Mountain is right there on the map also? Get it? Put in? Like with a boat, but at a trailhead?

            home of Brown – Cabin Creek trail, if we’re talking about My Grizz, and all the other Brown bears “in there”.

            And Madison Junction makes a perfect Y.on the YNP map, where I believe Forrest wanted to start his day fishing the day he would have taken his life and hidden the bronze chest. Then I think he would have done the too far to walk thing and taken a sedan down the Madison Canyon along Hebgen Lake, ie. “done it tire d” on wheels:

            So why is it that I must go
            And leave my trove for all to seek?
            The answers I already know,
            I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

            So Y is IT = The Madison River.


          • Madison junction where 2 rivers fed by hot springs join to make the Madison inside YNP & F mentions the Gibbon, Madison & Firehole in TTOTC.

            Good logical choice as many have this is theirs & hints in the book help towards clues.

            Considering the canyon down is now underwater way down the canyon, I will go with the put in south of Boat Mtn.

            Your missing no place for the meek but just about any place in the Rockies could be this. We need something specific.

            Yes there is a Y there but there are Y’s everywhere connecting 3 streams meet & double, triple omegas are everywhere as well with the meandering of the flow.

            You have some good connections to the book hints (although you don’t have them) relating to the clues in the poem.

            Thanks for sharing your clues.

            I still like his Ojo bathing spot as WWWH seeing it gives a lot more breathing room.


          • Jake – No place for the meek….no paddle up your Beaver Creek. Those Meek mountain men couldn’t find beavers in these parts, and they disappeared until the wolves were reintroduced in YNP also. The overabundance of elk caused overgrazing of foliage, and beavers couldn’t thrive. Heavy loads could be the 1959 Hebgen Quake Slide and water high could be the resulting Quake Lake. Or all those high elevation Spring Creeks in that drainage. Or the heavy snow loads on all those Madison Range peaks that create avalanches.


          • Jake – The Madison Valley canyon down from both your and my WWWH used to be called the Burnt Hole, due to fires that destroyed trees in that area. And then they dammed the Madison and Hebgen Lake was born.


            From the Lower Geyser Basin, the trappers followed the Firehole River to its junction with the Gibbon—from which he identifies the “Burnt Hole” of the trappers as the present Madison Valley.


          • Nice article Lisa.
            I haven’t seen that one.

            “During the period 1827 to 1833 American trappers are reported as having visited the Yellowstone region every year; [21] however, only the visit of Joseph L. Meek in 1829 can be documented.”

            From there it’s no place for the meek.

            I don’t like to interpret any clue as a mental emotional feeling like meek being afraid or insecure because of the area you are in considering some people are not afraid of anything or anyplace & we know grizzlies are everywhere in this part of the Rockies.

            I think the places & things at places like heavy loads have to be site specific & unlike snow that falls on the Madison’s.

            I also believe that heavy loads, water high and the blaze must be on the creek or within 500′ of the creek.


          • Jake – Thank you for your valuable input. Getting that input is very important to me, considering you have had boots on the ground in my general search area.

            I was thinking about Nine Quarter Circle Ranch and.Forrest potentially landing there again to hide the bronze chest, so I found this quote:

            A lot of things you can’t plan. Making plans is antagonistic to freedom. I used to tell a story in my ‘too far to walk’ book about in Santa Fe I had a Piper Malibu Mirage. It carried lots of fuel. It had 43 foot wingspan. I could go out there all by myself. Push the hanger doors open because I didn’t want anybody to help me. Crank that airplane up. Get permission from the tower to take off and head north and then turn my radios off. I had no idea where I was going to land, what I was going to see. I didn’t even care. I had six or seven hundred miles before I had to think about that. I had GPS and I had maps. I’d find a little town up in Wyoming or Idaho or someplace in Montana and look on my map and see if they had a rental car or an airport. If they did, I’d land and rent a car and go out and sit by the lake or the river. I did that.

            I tell a story about that in, I think it’s Lander, Wyoming. The little Popo Agee River runs through lander. How can you not stop when little Pope Agie River runs through a town?


          • Lisa,
            I don’t think F landed at 9QCR to hide the treasure. I do believe he has landed there before & rented a horse seeing they don’t have rental cars.

            I can see him landing there & going for a nice trot through this area & probably knows it very well & consider it his backyard.

            I also see him landing his plane at West Yellowstone, Gallatin Field, Cody, Lander & Henry’s lake.

            Remember, he drove a sedan when hiding the chest & it was probably rented in NM considering you wouldn’t want to risk the treasure being confiscated on a commercial flight.

            It’s also illegal to transport such a cache across state lines unless filling out proper paperwork which he probably didn’t deal with that red tape considering you have to disclose what it’s worth.

            He could have flown there privately & then rented a sedan but I’m going with the driving from NM to The Treasure State scenerio with the chest in the trunk.


          • Jake -.Since the ranch owners also own, manage and control the airstrip, I am pretty sure they would have had a sedan available for pilots like Forrest to rent or borrow. Or maybe he just borrowed the restored YNP motorcoach shown in these pictures to hide the bronze chest:


            The airport info I found had a contact name and number for the ranch manager for getting permission to land, so I guess I could always call and ask if Forrest has been there and when…


          • Jake – A long-time friend of mine here in town owns a store I often frequent. She grew up working in West Yellowstone, and her sister still manages the private air traffic at West Yellowstone Airport. One phone call and I’m sure I could determine if Forrest was there in the Summer of 2010. And whether she offers sedans for private pilots who land there. If he was a familiar pilot, would they have checked to see if he still had his pilot’s license upon landing?


          • Jake – Yeah, whatever, Forrest. So you could fill your Piper plane up with gas and fly 700 miles North and go wherever you wanted to in the Rocky Mountains without planning it. Well, I can put $20 in gas in my car and drive one hour North to the Idaho Rocky Mountain Ranch and swim in the hot springs pool, and then head to the Point at Redfish Lake and eat my lunch in the 60 degree weather yesterday. So there.



          • I don’t think F would have wanted to draw attention to him on any trip nevermind the hiding trip.

            I highly doubt he had anyone chauffeur him in the YNP motorcaoch & having him fetch a rental car would be dumb.

            The bottom line is the less people involved & interaction with him, the better.
            Less people to say, hey I rented a car for him & drove it to 9QCR so he could use it back in 2009.

            The less trails left by F, the better & he is not a dumb guy & believe he covered almost all the questions he had in mind.

            Make a few phone calls & see what you can find.

            The problem with heavy loads on Cabin Creek is that there are many just like a lot of creeks in this area. If there are heavy loads on 1 part of the creek only, then I can see that as his heavy loads if you have the right creek. There should only be one set of heavy loads & 1 water high & the (1) blaze on your creek.
            I know some disagree with this thinking but it is logical to me.


      • Jake – Trips taken; all thwarted by warnings of the looming presence of My Grizz:

        July 28 – August 2, 2013
        August 17 – 23, 2013

        July 11, 2014

        November 10-11, 2016

        September 27-28, 2017


        • So you’ve taken 5 trips from your home 4 1/2 hours away and haven’t walked up the CC trail yet? Tough break. Was the trail closed? I wish I lived so close. I have to travel for days just to get close to any part of the the Rockies but have managed to make 5 trips. Myself and my searching buddies have logged over 80 back-country miles through grizz country – fun and exhilarating to be sure. Find some bodies to go with next summer and do it. All take bear spray and an empty soda can with a few rocks in it to shake/make noise as you hike. I bang it on my leg as I walk. That canyon is loud at first but gets quieter. The creek needs crossed a few times. There are handy logs but be prepared to get your feet wet. Do not go alone! Are you E* too?


          • Mitch – Thank you for your supportive response and your great suggestions. I have been collecting Grizz stories from people I know here in Sun Valley, ever since my trip a few weeks ago. Like my barista, Collin, who faced a grizzly Sow, with her two cubs between him and her, while going about a mile ahead of his party, on a remote lake trail in Glacier National Park. The giant Sow charged him, and he retreated behind a tree and deadfall and then sprinted faster than he ever has in his life the mile back to his party. The Sow followed him all the way, and prevented him and his party fom moving forward, so they had to turn back. All of them worked at a restaurant on Swift Current Lake for 4 months this Summer. Collin considers this his only near-death experience to date. He didn’t hike again in Glacier till he got up the nerve several weeks later.

            And yes,…my former identity was E*.


  7. Jake –


    My spot. It is 500 feet from Trail 207 and my double Omega Blaze in the creek needs to be crossed twice and Searchers need to head up the hill 500 ft to get to it. They would only be within 200 feet if they followed a Spring Creek up the hill off trail.


    • Jake – And that perfect square in the landscape, with the fallen Lodgepole Pine on a perfect diagonal, has not changed since I joined The Chase in February of 2013. With the shadows it looks like a pyramid from the air. The kind of thing a former military bomber like Forrest would notice right away, looking out his Piper plane’s window, while circling to land at West Yellowstone Airport.

      And didn’t Forrest say to look under a log? If Forrest took his life, and positioned his body on top of the chest under that log, My Grizz would have had a really hard time pulling his body out, and his bones would still be there. Perfect.


      • Jake – And my cartouche-like blaze is above my spot to the right, along the ridge of that hillside, where one can look “quickly down” to see the pyramid from Forrest’s plane or Google Earth. It reads:


        Or as I like to translate:

        Airforce Airman Forrest Fenn for-Ever

        Because the E is for Ever…drawing nigh

        That’s the Eric Sloane reference…Everard. The E is left justified on the cartouche drawing.


    • Link didn’t work so I pasted the URL into Chrome but Chrome keeps freezing up.

      Not my computer with 8 chips clocked @ 3.2 Ghz each & video card with 2Gig dedicated memory.

      I stripped the coords out of your URL & stuck it in GE & am checking it out now.

      Let me know if this is correct in GE Windows version


    • Appears to be a doable distance parking at Cabin Creek campground. I havn’t mapped it out yet on GE to see how many miles but seems to be under 3 miles, around 2.7 but we have to add the elevation into the trip & that’s where GE does a great job.

      The total elevation gain is around 700′ from the parking spot to where your spot is & is borderline for a 79 or 80 yr old man combined with the mileage.

      I like the area & if you can find some old info on this creek, you will find out it was called “Stinking Cabin Creek”. Sort of like you’re up sh**s creek without a paddle.

      I have scoped this area extensively on GE over a year ago & kept it on the board but low scores in do-ability for an older man but definitely like Forest Creek being close by.

      I don’t like to underestimate F at that age, so it’s definitely a prime area. I just wish it would be around 2 miles considering the ups & downs of the hike up 207 to the spot.

      I will find the quote in his book(s) where he said he aged much faster after the age of 80 or something to that.
      At 79 he could have been superman especially with the quest & Adrenalin pouring through his veins.


        • OK, I see now where it is.
          Not sure why the other coords weren’t right.

          3 mile hike one way is max in my book but if he started in the morning which I believe he may have, considering he is a morning person in his later years & anglers usually start early in the morning. It could be there but I will have to analyze more.

          You will have to cross the creek.
          Your effort will be worth the cold.


          • Jake -.Here is my post from Dal’s after my last trip. I was more concerned with home of Brown and no place for the meek, but worth the cold crossed my mind, when I realized it was 32 degrees out and I was wearing my trail runners.

            Lisa Cesari on September 29, 2017 at 9:18 am said:
            JDA – And the diamonds in the sky were stunning at Campfire Lodge night before last. Just before Dawn, I know I saw the rare alignment of several planets, and I think I saw the International Space Station fly over. It was Forrest’s new book cover and your comments about it that made me get in the car and go.

            But 8 grizzlies stood in my way to reach my spot, reported by bow hunters in the late afternoon the previous day. Not My Grizz, but probably his girlfriends and their families. Three Sows, two Yearlings and three Cubs. The Perfect Storm. I am proud to say I went alone in there anyway yesterday morning. But prints in the mud of all sizes going both directions and no one else on the trail finally got the best of me. Plus it was 32 degrees and my fingers were frozen. I didn’t think I could take the safety off and trigger my bear spray that someone gave me with my running gloves on. Well , and then there were all those people who own and work for Campfire Lodge, and all the fly fisherman at breakfast there, who thought I was nuts for going “alone in there”. And also Penny from the Hebgen Lake District forest service office in West Yellowstone. She was so glad when I stopped by to meet her in person yesterday afternoon, to tell her that I didn’t go all the way in. She said she took a survey since I had called her the day before , and none of the Rangers or staff in the office or their friends would have done it. The narrow trail along the talus slope with berry bushes and gnarled trees along the way, high above the creek, provides No Escape from a Grizz
            Gut piles created by the bow hunters attract so many grizzlies right now, who are fattening up for hibernation, that it’s just not safe. And the 11 inches of snow they got about a week ago, still present at 9000 feet, have forced them all downward to a lower elevation habitat. I could hear you saying, “Stay safe”, in my head…thanks, JDA.

            And I loved your answers to Jenny’s 6 Questions on her blog. Thank you for sharing your awesome Chase journey with us.


      • Just ran a path (twice) on GE Pro & the total distance comes out to 3.7 miles one way to the coords. I thought it would have been 2.7 but I was way off. The beauty of GE is when you have the path stick to the ground where the trail is, it adds to the mileage because all the little turns on the path as well as the elevation gain & drop along the route.

        If you have GE Pro, I can email the path to you.

        Conclusion: The only way F could have made 4 trips totaling 14.8 miles & done in one afternoon, he would have to start early in the morning & leave the parking spot before 9am just to be back after the final trip before 6pm if that’s when afternoon ends.

        I’m looking at a 30 minute mile pace for someone that age with this trail & will need some breaks for the spinal stenosis LOL – not so much being winded from the thin air.

        The elevation gain was 720′ from the parking lot to your destination. Pretty steady with no major ups & downs unlike trail #17 at my spot.

        The elevation profile in GE Pro gives you a good idea what to expect.


        • Jake – I do not have that Google program so I really appreciate what you did for me. Here is my post that supports my argument over at Dal’s. I really was going slow and meditating at the same time. That’s a 25 minute mile.

          Lisa Cesari
          on October 13, 2017 at 8:46 am said:
          Blex and W.R. – This is a good exercise. Pun intended. While hiking my favorite Chocolate Gulch Trail at a slow, meditative pace this past Wednesday, my GoogleFit program recorded a pace of 25 minutes per mile. The elevation gain to the top is only 700 ft. The program recorded that I did 3.31 miles in 1hr and 23 minutes. That is roughly the distance out to my spot at a the similar elevation gain and similar altitude. Even with stopping to eat a sandwich, I could do the out and back twice at the same place in 6 hours.



          • Jake – The math for your estimate you did for me therefore would be:

            3.7 × 4 = 14.8 miles
            14.8 × 25 = 370 minutes
            370 ÷ 60 = 6.17 hours

            Even if it took seven hours, that is one afternoon.in my book. It doesn’t get dark until about 9pm.


          • I would call it a 30 min mile for F.
            He does have 30+ years on us or me anyway at 51.

            Still one afternoon & I keep going back to the quote: “. I made two trips from my car to the hiding place and it was done in one afternoon.f”

            He didn’t say – I did it all in one afternoon –
            I am changing my way i think about him a little & can’t see him leaving the place where he was staying in late morning. He was probably up way before the sun came up considering he knew what he was going to do.

            I wouldn’t track a path for you if it wasn’t in the golden zone as I like to call it.

            There are many that are lost out there & not sure what the heck they are thinking if that’s what there doing….

            Nope, there not.


  8. They never found Lewis & Clark & would bet F found his very special hiding spot on this trip.

    I believe they didn’t get past Big Sky into the Spanish Peaks, nor did they go to the west towards Ennis.

    When you’re starving & in the woods for days & the fun ran out, the only way back would be what is known today as the Gallatin Gateway.

    Very daring thing to do at a young age.


    • I miss seeing you over on Dals blog Jake. I don’t really read through peoples comments much anyway. But I always enjoyed skipped to your stuff. Not a lot off commenting going on over here, but love the freedom of speech!


      • Thanks Clee,

        I do not kiss anyones ass period
        Fine, if I get nuked here too.

        I believe in freedom of speech as you & it is dying at a rapid pace.

        Looking forward to debating ideas here with most commenters.

        Why was F looking for L&C in an area where they did not explore?


          • Jake – from the beginning of the chase I always suspected that Forrest flew into Nine Quarter Circle Ranch, where they had a cheap he could borrow or they rented for him. That is why I started looking up the Taylor Fork and found Sandy place on Lightning Creek. On a topo map in satellite view, that creek that runs along a ridge makes a hell of a lightning blaze, you know:

            And when I found the Trapper’s Cabin Ranch on the Gallatin Land Trust site, I.am pretty sure it referred to Sandy and her sister as the owners both being she’s.


          • Lightning (horse)
            Lightning Creek

            Tumbledown 700′
            (That doesn’t exist in the tale he told)
            (Trip from Quake lake to Avalanche Lake)
            Tumbledown Creek

            (TTOTC) Pg ???
            Cache Creek

            Dead Horse
            Page 11 TTOTC
            Dead Horse Creek

            9 Quarter Circle Ranch
            9 Clues
            Quarter –

            Major stripes
            In the wood, Woodward.

            Above 5K, below 10.2K=
            7.6K TFalls

            Oh, and yes an airport for a twin engine that is confirmed.

            How about Cameron Draw?
            His mom lived in Cameron?

            What about ode to joe

            Sandy will be remembered for saving this whole area & where the treasure is.


          • Sorry Clee,
            What if it is on Sandy’s property where the heart is?

            I did comment to you about this on dals site a while back & looks like this flood staging area comes & goes In the shape of a heart.

            We are shaping this landscape into what it is & should be.

            There are not many here that agree with our location & theory but I do know you are are right on point & think I am as well.

            Yup, the treasure is in Colorado & the hints in his books point us far away from there.

            It’s in New Mexico where he never spent his youth there.

            I will cast my pole along the Firehole, Gibbon, Madison & Gallatin.

            “And I know there are costs. Every Montana….



          • Jake – What a great post!

            Yes,…and I still want to have The Chase Victory Party at Nine Quarter Circle Ranch, flying Forrest in via Shiloh. And posting Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson at the door as the security guard to keep unwanted Chasers out. Ironically, I am reading a book by a woman I met at a conference at the library here a few weeks ago, Patricia Velasquez, who was in The Mummy Returns with Dwayne. So I am sure she could find him for me…




          • Yes, 9 QCR would be the place for a party & small concert.
            The Rock is good & Vin Diesel should be on the list.

            I’ve been pondering one of F’s latest interviews earlier this year that where he said – not very many have been within 200′ – lots have been within 500′.

            Trying to pan out a scenario somewhere in the region we have discussed.

            Is there a fork in the trail that’s 500 ‘ away & the trail on the left is 200′ from the treasure?

            I’m thinking that there is a “labeled” trail or creek or something labeled 500′ away & maybe even 200’ away.

            I think this is important considering all the searchers in the Madison’s.


          • I don’t think they made it as far where the Jef, Mad & Gal into the Mis but there is a big X there.

            Something tells me the only time they got out of the Madison mountains they headed home.

            I will read the journal you posted & I’m sure there is a connection one way or the other, there always is.

            I can picture the neatly stacked forks in the drawer.


          • Wow Lisa,
            That’s quite the journal.
            He did read Journal of a Trapper a dozen times so F probably read all the entries in the L&C journal if they were available to him.

            Surely L&C discovered the Madison & Gallatin which were mentioned in his books & tend to believe that “places” including rivers & streams are the hints in his books that need to be married with some of the clues in the poem.

            He obviously wouldn’t give the whole cow away, just some milk.


          • Nice to see you do your homework Lisa.

            He mentions the camera in 2008 & it’s great to see the story published on line still.

            Some of the wording changed & some stayed the same & seems to indicate an evolving writer trying to make the piece more pleasing.

            “I won’t go on with this story because the years have been kind to my memory, except to say that finally, we loosened our grip on the reins and the horses took us to a dirt road, fifty miles from where we started.”

            Where were there dirt roads 50 miles from where they started?

            I do believe there was at least 1 in Big Sky or whatever it was called then.

            Then again is the 50 miles as the crow flies or as the horse trots?


          • Jake – I have always thought that was a cumulative 50 miles, including when they went up the creek that got narrower and narrower and had to turn back for half a day. Maybe that was Lightning Creek? I have always imagined that Forrest and Donnie were up here below Redstreak Peak in the Upper Teepee Basin, and then took what is the Winter snowmobile trail and Summer dirt road access to Cabin Creek Cabin, just over the ridge from there, all the way down to Highway 191. You can follow the dirt road down along Teepee Creek on this Google Earth 3D map:



          • Lisa, I couldn’t get your inks to work.

            I have been up FS 986 twice.
            Teepee Creek is an area of interest for me. I will only travel along Forest Service roads if they are near a creek.

            The problems I have with Teepee & Little is I can’t reconcile “There’ll be no paddle up your creek”.

            With Taylor Creek you can say it is tailored for you seeing the word “taylor” was derived from the word “tailor”.

            Teepee will stay on my list considering I beat the heck out of the Taylor Falls area.

            The main reason I am searching creeks that flow to Gallatin Road is what I believe to be the 5th (middle) clue “The end is ever drawing nigh”
            The end is ever drawing North Intrastate Gallatin Highway….

            I will keep this interpretation of the 5th clue considering the 4 clues before it bring you right there floating on the Madison towards the bridge where you draw out.


          • Jake – I loved your post. Great insights! Right where FS 986 meets Highway 191 is Grayling Creek, which the two horses Forrest borrowed from his friend at Parade Rest Ranch would have logically followed along the trail back to the ranch, passing the Grayling arm of Hebgen Lake. I am sure the horses had also been up that FS 986 Road to get to Cabin Creek Cabin, as that is the way a lot of people choose to travel to get up there. The picture I posted of the Madison River at Highway 191 leads to the Madison Arm of Hebgen Lake by the way. Those fishing from boats on this particular stretch are called “gulpers” and float all the way into Hebgen Lake while fishing.

            The 50 cumulative miles for Forrest and Donnie on horseback fit right into the TS Eliot poem in my opinion, since they started at the ranch and went out Red Canyon:

            We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
            – T.S. Eliot


          • Thanks. I love your posts as well & very informative. You certainly are intelligent & realistic.

            I never thought about the 50 miles being cumulative & is very possible considering F.

            Yes, that trail is a logical way back that the horses would have sniffed out easily & even it was way further north into the mountains, horses & animal instincts & senses are far superior to us humans & can be trusted much more.

            Cabin Creek or is that Stinking Cabin Creek is not too far from Little Tepee Creek. I would bet F has visited this area extensively. The cabin is well within his reach back then & probably now.

            Grayling Creek is in the mix & sure F knows every inch.

            Certainly possible they made a big 50 mile loop or trip. If they didn’t & kept heading north, they would likely come across Taylor Creek & i believe there was a dirt road back in 1946 in that valley.
            The Geo Marker (1948) I found here.
            45.074665, -111.340102


          • Jake – Awesome marker! Yes, I believe if they kept going up the Lightning Creek Trail, they would have ended up at Sandy’s place, The Trapper’s Cabin. Did you notice Forrest added the horse’s name, Lightning, to the newer version of his story in the book?

            And yes, the cabin was built in the 30s by the CCC:

            Before Forrest said it wasn’t associated within any structure, I said in an email to Forrest, that the treasure must be under the outhouse next to that cabin.

            And you can find lots of posts on this blog under my former identity for your reference.


          • They probably would have ended up at Sandy’s for sure right on lightning Creek.

            Yes, I did notice “Lightning” was left out & I think may be a hint. There may have been a paddle wheel up that creek that was mentioned on another site by another searcher that went up there & there were remnants of a paddle wheel. I wish I saved the reference.

            Taylor Creek had a dam & a flume for logging. The remnants I have seen.

            I had figured some time ago your former E but wasn’t sure but now I am.

            I have read many of your postings & love them here & on dal’s site.

            Not sure why I’m asking, but why did dal nuke you?


          • Jake – Thank you for your positive comments.

            I was.nuked because I tired of an ongoing battle I had with the same antagonistic searcher, and decided to speak my truth in a post, even though I knew it meant I would be taken off the blog. That searcher was nuked shortly thereafter, and has never returned to Dal’s. But as you can see, I have. And for me, that is poetic justice.


          • Jake – I took a Google searching class recently. Is this the post you were looking for?:

            Jake Faulker
            on May 3, 2017 at 7:23 am said:
            Thanks curious hobbit,
            After talking to some older fisherman on the Gallatin & Mike at Eldridge cabin, some have known about paddle wheels on some of the creeks way back & I hope this doesn’t fall into the category of knowing history.

            I like the idea of a paddle wheel better than Beaver paddle, oar’s & spanking.


          • Jake – Another:

            Jake Faulker
            on September 12, 2016 at 2:55 pm said:
            Begin it in the Firehole River near Ojo Caliente spring
            And take it in the Firehole Canyon down,
            Not far, but too far too walk.
            Put in below the Firehole River (on the Madison) (You have a choice to put in up the Gibbon or the Madison)

            From there it’s no place for Joseph Meek, (No hunting or trapping allowed in YNP now) (From there is where you’re going which is the border of YNP on the Madison River, once your outside the border it’s OK to trap & hunt)

            The end is ever drawing North Intrastate Gallatin Highway (NIGH=Word that is key) (T-igh-T focus) (Less than a mile away from the YNP border on the Madison & where you draw your dingy out) (Note the wink without the smile after nigh;)

            There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
            Taylor creek is tailored just for you. Look up the origin these words.
            There was a paddle wheel & log flume there years ago along with over 50 cabins & many more roads there for a community of loggers, farmers & miners.
            All gone now……

            You figure out the rest.


          • Jake – Was it Scott’s post you were looking for originally?:

            Scott C. on May 11, 2013 at 9:13 pm said:
            Just wanted to throw out my thoughts on one of the nine clues, maybe it’s been mentioned before, but i don’t recall seeing it. This interpretation of “no paddle up your creek” fits with my solve, but it won’t give away my location, so I am okay with giving it out here. There hasn’t been much discussion on this clue as everyone is pretty set on this clue meaning a dry creek that can be walked up, or a creek that can’t be canoed/rafted up, or a trail along a creek that can be traversed without a paddle…etc…kind of a no-brainer…easy…a throwaway clue, right?

            However, what if it means an old stamp-mill? Not all gold mining is done like you see on “Gold Rush” or the other gold searching reality shows. Usually, large gold-bearing boulders need to be crushed into pebbles before sluicing. The way it was done was using a large water mill on a creek or river to power the “stamping” or crushing of the rock. There are probably hundreds or thousands of these, or the remnants of these, littered throughout the Rockies, usually missing the “paddle wheel”. So if there is the foundation or vestiges of an old gold mill on your favorite Fenn creek. there probably would no longer be a “paddle” there. “No paddle up your creek”. Strong correlation to gold…

            Coincidentally, during research, I have discovered that I am related to the man that disassembled my particular old mill a hundred years ago. I have a pretty unique last name, so that is weird…I take it as a sign.


          • You’re very good Lisa!!!
            I love your research capabilities & memory.

            The past is always a good indicator to the future & if we don’t know what happened we will repeat & make the same mistake.

            I commend you for being who you are as honesty always is better than denying what has happened. I would rather chat with someone that tells it like it is, than someone powder puffing what is really going on.

            The quotes you found – Mike at Eldridge could not be verified. I think his memory is fading. Nice guy though.

            Me & my brother James have talked to a few older anglers & some knew of paddle wheels in some creeks & Taylor & Lightning were mentioned that I remembered & a creek or 2 further north past Big Sky which I tend to discount considering the distance from the start of the L&C journey knowing the could not pass the Spanish Peaks.

            No paddle up your creek….

            Here’s why I was nuked:
            Jake Faulker on July 8, 2017 at 3:19 pm said:
            “Would you like to share this place where there might be many canyons going down?
            I comprehend if you are paranoid like most here & don’t want to share here & just blurt out statements here & there without explaining.
            Down in the poem means only 1 thing to me if taken straightforward.
            Maps in general read like books where at the top of each page is north & the bottom is south & the one I have which is Gallatin National Forrest West does not have a legend which way is NSEW.
            If Forrest is indicating in the poem that “down” is “south” exclusively, I will eat my hat.
            I’m still looking on GE & can’t find any specific places where there are multiple canyons going down from a specific small/moderate area but I’m sure there are a few rare ones.
            I’ve got enough rabbit holes to last a lifetime & gonna start eating them hares again.”

            § dal on July 8, 2017 at 4:03 pm said:
            “It was an example Jake…
            You are already in moderation..
            I’ve warned you about being a jerk..
            That was your last comment on this blog…
            Here is an example.
            Yellowstone Lake comes to mind..Many folks believe it is WWWH.
            They could head down(stream), which is north on the upper Yellowstone River..to the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone
            Down(south) on the Yellowstone River where it enters the lake..
            Toward Thorofare to the south.”


          • Taylor Creek area was going to be “Big Sky” area from talking to locals & from what I was told & doing research online.

            Sandy (which Mike told me is a man & not sure about that) Poured lots of resources into this area to make sure it would be reverted back to wilderness area & there would be no development for the rich & famous as Big Sky.

            I like what he/she did.
            Nature should always have the last say.


        • Jake- Looking FOR Lewis&Clark. FF and Donnie were looking/exploring/discovering in leiu, in place, of L&C. as if they (FF&Donnie) were commissioned by Jefferson as well. they were a two man Corps of Discovery.
          after all, they knew L&C were long dead when FF & Donnie went looking… in their stead.

          does FF ever mention the Corps of Discovery by name? if not, then L&C could be a hint to Seasons of Discovery, part of the Draper experience.


          • Makes sense Bob,
            They were long dead.

            F&D limited there supplies on that trip & a camera was never mention although there are pics of them.
            What else did he take on the trip not mentioned?

            Funny how we can count the pics taken on one hand.
            Where are the other pics sitting? In his home?

            I don’t think F ever mentioned the Corps of Discovery by name, but I could be wrong.

            I don’t think anything he hasn’t mentioned could be a hint but may be a clue, but I am not in that camp.

            I try to look at his books holding hints (text only) that will help with the clues in the poem.

            The poem clues seem to be places or things at places that he has obviously been & considers them all special.

            I’m very interested in that big clump of mountain area above Hebgen, below Spanish Peaks & between the Madison & Gallatin rivers.

            That’s my X


          • Jake – About that camera,…I posted this on the new contest thread over at Dal’s in response to a nice stick cartoon featuring that quote about the creek getting narrower and narrower:

            Lisa Cesari on October 13, 2017 at 2:18 pm said:

            Colomtnman – This version of Forrest’s Looking for Lewis and Clark story is just for you. Note the differences in the text from the version he published on his Old Santa Fe Trading Co. website, which is also the same version published in TTOTC book:


            Really nice drawing


    • Hi Deb! A while back on Dals blog somebody mentioned three areas and was trying to make a connection to them. Kansas, New York and Philadelphia. Maybe it was cluesfromphilly I don’t know but anyway the connection is Buffalo Bill. Of course Cody grew up in Kansas, lived in Rochester, New York and his best friend, Charles Trego lived in West Chester, PA just 25 miles west of philly. Cody and Trego have a lot of history together.

      west CHESTer


  9. E*:
    Bob – So, then,…do you think the answers to where TC is located,…are somehow revealed in those photos,…which Forrest may have taken with a new 1947 Model-E camera?

    E- I think it’s quite obvious from the cover of TTOTC that somehow photographs are related to a pile of gold. Treasured memories that last a lifetime. To be passed on to future generations that tell a story. The story of ones life of our daily struggles to earn money (gold) to survive and hopefully a little bit more than that to do the things we enjoy. Our free time, of freedom.


    • Hi Bob, well I hope you had a good weekend?
      I have no idea what its all about. I can guess but that would just be silly of me. Until I figure out how to read that old coots mind, ( which isnt likely) I will remain in awe and searching for the answers.

      Now dont be offended when I call Forrest an old coot, its a term of endearment. He probably laughs when he sees that. 🙂


      • Hi Deb! Yes great weekend! I suppose to get to be an old coot one must have been a young coot to start out. FF’s school days could describe a young coot I guess. Lol
        At the beach this weekend, I stumbled on to a cold water geyser here in Florida. A youngster showed me how to make it erupt.


  10. Twice on page 59 Forrest mentions that he was 16 years old when he decided to go looking for Lewis and Clark. 1947, summer. The popular camera for still photography at that time was the Brownie box camera. The photos of he and Donnie in the Gallatin National Forest (treasure chest) were probably taken with one of these. On page 61, the caption for the photo reads- “I knew enough to be still and watch the trees, after I took this photograph.”
    Using his look quickly down unit, the brownie camera, he took (take) photos of the Gallatin Forest (the chest) and he and Donnie made up and went home friends once again. (And go in peace)


  11. pg61, “so I applied some mountain man wisdom to the situation. The sun comes up in the east and we thought out was south so that made it easy, except that south was over the highest mountain we’d ever seen.”

    Forrest and Donnie went looking for Lewis and Clark in the Gallatin National Forest. The highest mountain there is Granite Peak. The journey out starts here, as well as the poem. At Granite Peak is Granite Glacier, on the north slope. Since out was south and the highest mountain they’d ever seen was in their way, they were looking at Granite Glacier. This is WWWH. (Read about how glaciers are formed from melted snowfall to ice).

    Their journey home was downhill in any direction.(canyon down)

    pg63, “we were 50 miles from where we started and Donnie was in good spirits again,”… Not far but too far to walk, on horses.

    Granite Peak is no place for the meek with names of places like- “Froze-To-Death Plateau” and “Avalanche Lake”.

    pg62, “then his right stirrup broke and and he had to ride on one foot”
    This is the end is ever drawing nigh. The nigh side of a horse is the left side where Donnie had one stirrup.

    pg62, “gradually, that little stream got narrower and narrower and deeper and deeper until it developed vertical sides that nothing could get through except water.” This is no paddle up your creek.

    The blaze is lightning, the horse.
    pg63, “we finally loosened our grip on the reins(wise) and the horses took us to a dirt road.”
    Their quest did cease.
    Tarry scant marvel gaze is the photo that Donnie took on pg62 of Forrest and the horses high in the mountains.

    “I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak”
    Forrest did it years ago, but can’t now.

    Your effort will be worth the cold
    If you are brave and in the wood
    I give you title to the gold.

    Looking for Lewis and Clark in The Thrill of the Chase, is title to the gold.


    • Bob – Now I get what you meant,…about finding the “treasure chest” and not the bronze box. Finally,…someone posts a solve that rings of the truth to me. Bravo! 🙂


      • Bob – Here’s that story,…for those like me,…who do not have TTOTC book:


        “Surely the rippling brooks would be grateful for our company and the grizzlies would understand that we were just exploring the area and meant no harm.”

        Yeah,…right,…you tell yourself that, Forrest! They were on horses, though,…which as I mentioned before,…is helpful. And doesn’t the phrase “done it tired” sound like something John Wayne would say,…upon dismounting his horse,…after a grueling ride???


          • Deb – Thank you so much for your expression of appreciation! As long as the Grizz,…and my lack of funds,…blocks my path,…I will continue to share my thoughts on these blogs,…hoping that something I say might help someone else (well,…on the blogs I haven’t been BANNED from, anyway!). But I would like to hold to my original plan,…to arrive at Forrest’s door,…with the bronze box in hand,…and my TTOTC and TFTW books,…newly purchased at the Collected Works bookstore,…ready for his personal signature. It’s a dream I have,…that just won’t die. Thank you for your lovely offer, though. 🙂


    • Bob –

      Good post ! We are still sooooooooooooooo many miles apart of what we believe – and that’s OK – I don’t want you in my spot anyway – 🙂

      I do believe this chapter is loaded with hints. The horses are a giant part – and perhaps a saddle.

      Also our new friends that have posted here recently – didn’t even have enough basis for their search. I’m sure they had more to tell – but, I feel every chapter in TTOTC has something to do with this chase. This chapter could be a close second to “MY WAR FOR ME”.


    • Bob – I saw this comment,…over on Dal’s blog:


      “Brave and in the Wood. Another play on words. Gallatin National Forest, where Trail Creek leads into. Galla(n)t (brave) in Forest (wood). Clue 9.”

      That goes with your comment:

      “Forrest and Donnie went looking for Lewis and Clark in the Gallatin National Forest.”

      I liked that play on words. Maybe that searcher wants to come play with us over here,…on Mike’s blog, too? 🙂


          • E*

            Oh Boy – now – over there – we have Ricky Nelson saying he knows exactly were to retrieve the TC. Maybe he does – most likely he doesn’t .

            I used to like Ricky Nelson.

            Don’t you think it’s the fall nip in the air – bring out the hoopla.



        • inthechaseto – Maybe it is the thought of the roads being closed,…with all the snow I think the Rockies will get this year,…that is driving searchers to distraction?


        • E*

          Ahhhh – the roads

          Let me tell you about the road – of course that depends on which road – well, it’s not good so maybe I’ll just pass on that. My poor jeep has been thrashed, tosseled, water logged, and rattled enough. One more bolt missing and I sure she will just fall apart. We named our ole jalopy “Bertha” after a friend of my dads, who survived a flood. And good ole Bertha has been good to us, so we keep her and take care of her.


        • Hey Bob –

          You know how there are no hooves on the buffalo that FF made? Well, look at the photo in the book with Cody pulling the front end of the car – no hoof on the back leg either. So don’t say I never gave you a clue to your spot. 🙂

          Maybe you will see some hooves – here ………..



        • Bob – OK,…thinking about “home of Brown”,…or “hoB”,…or “HOB”,…or “Hob”,…or “Old Hob”:



          “The pirates come out, unprepared and unawares, we catch ’em in the crossfire, send them down to see Old Hob.”
          ?Mullroy to Murtogg[src]

          Also Old Hob; archaic nickname for the Devil. [2] Mullroy spoke this name prior to the battle on the HMS Dauntless,[7] possibly as a reference to Davy Jones, the devil of the seas.

          See: Davy Jones,…and his heart,…locked within the Dead Man’s Chest,…and buried on an island:



          • E- I STILL like the brownie camera for home of brown. It was small like FF’s boyhood home. In the midwest, where I grew up too, a small house was known as a crackerbox. They had shutters….Get the picture?


          • Oh yes –

            Brownie Model E* is a higher-quality workhorse of a camera – made to last – pretty cute too.

            I sure would go with that Bob – 🙂


          • Bob – So, then,…do you think the answers to where TC is located,…are somehow revealed in those photos,…which Forrest may have taken with a new 1947 Model-E camera?


          • E- I don’t think the camera he used was new. Usually on adventure, I take older equipment that can get knocked around or abused if need be. The camera used on he and Donnie’s adventure was probably a few years old.
            And yes, I see treasure in every singe photo in the memoir TTOTC.


          • E- yes that does look like an omega!

            Got a minuite? I can tell you how you catch trout in a swollen muddy river. True story- I was fishing Bennett Spring State Park in the Ozarks of southern Missouri, a typical day, my daily permit fastened to my shirt casting a white rooster tail spinner. Nice weekend day and as usual, the river is crowded with fishermen. A storm blew in an a shower came with it . Everybody heads for their cars to wait it out. Including me. Sitting there in my car I noticed a small steam, at first a trickle and then grew larger and was washing dirt and debris into the river. The river muddied where the stream flowed in. I got an idea, I cut the spinner off my line and tied on the tiniest hook I could find in my tackle box. I had a 4″ scented worm and hooked it right in the center. Then attached a tiny split shot sinker 6″ above the worm. I dropped the worm in the muddy stream, opened the bail and let the stream carry it into the river. Keeping the worm in the muddy water, not letting it drift into the clear water. Holding loose line in my left hand, I had to twitch the rod tip to free the sinker when it hung on the bottom. Letting out line slowly, slowly, twitch, twitch. I’m wearing a poncho because it’s still raining and the guys held up in their cars are watching me. And…BAM! The line is jerked out of my hand… I fumbled to crank the reel to close the bail! Wow fish on!!! Good thing my drag was set light, I didn’t even see the fish take it. I couldn’t see anything in the muddy water at all. I reeled in a nice little 12″ rainbow, the good eating size. Had to gut him he swallowed the hook. I was too slow on the set. I caught a couple more and then of course, slowly some brave ones got out of their cars to see what I was doing. In later years fishing at Bennett, I would pray for rain. To clear out the newbies and have the river all to myself.


          • Bob – Thank you for that well told fishing tale! I wish I had read it, though…before my first trip to my favorite camp,…where there was a 3.5 hour intense thunderstorm,…on my third night of staying in a small cabin there. The next morning,…I went out to watch the fly fishermen at the place where the creek meets the river (which I had done on my first two evenings there),…and the creek and river were that same Hershey’s chocolate brown,…that you saw in my link photo. They told me they weren’t going to even TRY to fish that day,…that the 17-20″ Rainbows,…that were clearly there the previous days,…evidenced by their catching them,…wouldn’t be able to see the flies. I think you must have a very high I.Q., Bob,…like Forrest said,…or maybe you speak Rainbow???


          • E- well I don’t know about an eye-que but I will type this much, on my search to Thermopolis at the Greybull there I wanted very badly to sink a worm there at the rainbow terrace. That river beckons me and I swear I will return someday. There are huge fish in those waters I’m sure. May have to upgrade to 4lb. As vision is limited in deep water. And the scented appeals to nasal delights rather than visual. Big fish demand big bait. I think FF would agree, he’s a big one and slippery too.


  12. I believe the sketch in the Teachers With Ropes chapter is a hint to what was called the ropewalk. Lewis & Clark found out the hard way that rope was a vital component for their expedition. It’s in some of the more obscure literature about the expedition but it’s there.


    • So JJ, do you think a rope will be necessary in your search? Using a rope doesn’t fit in to my search/spot/area…
      It is amazing though how much stuff (potential clues) we can sift out of all our reading/research.


    • for those who are looking for a Brown related to YNP, there is a Brown ( person ) author listed after
      9 year home of the Rocky Mountains subtitle.


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