Stout-Hearted Men-1

41 thoughts on “Stout-Hearted Men-1

  1. Bare Hunting

    Friday June 3 2016

    I had passed Cerrillos on the way to Hyde Park so I found it again and went south. Cheeks was on the right just as the barkeep had told me. Walking in the door i’m greeted by that familiar aroma embedded in the aging carpet of cigarettes, beer, and cheap perfume. My evening mountain air. I’ve never been to a club in New Mexico so i thought it wise to discuss local hunting regulations with the doorman. The rules here are similar to those in Florida, Nevada and California. I paid the one-time daily use fee and head toward the concession stand. They don’t have my favorite beer so I settle for a dark beer brewed in Alaska. It’s really good! I found a place to sit and watch the bares dance to the music. One large female sniffs her way to my table. I play dead and she moves on. I didn’t bring bear spray tonight, possibly a mistake. I’m hoping to catch and release. In the past, friends of mine have taken bares home with them. A bear does not make a good pet. They can literally destroy your household in a matter of weeks. It never ends well. It’s best to enjoy the bares in their environment and leave them. I only have one beer and decide to head to my motel, the Cottonwood. The barkeep at Harry’s Roadhouse advised me not to drink and drive as the Santa Fe police frown upon that. I don’t want to spend the night in jail because I already paid for a night at the Cottonwood. The first day of Fennboree is over, and i’m looking forward to the movie screening in the morning. Maybe after a hot bath and good night sleep I’ll be better adjusted to the altitude. Dancing bares dreams.

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  2. I didn’t want to go to college, I just wanted to be with my friends.
    “Cadet Fenn, report to finance”…it was time for me to go.

    Lots of go- ing in this chapter.

    Why is it that I must go?

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  3. I brought this up on Dal’s blog a while back as well. Why did he say “associated” with a structure after talking about digging up outhouses? Why didn’t he simply say “in a structure” or “under a structure”.

    We all know by now that FF chooses his words very carefully and he has a month to plan for his Today Show appearances and to think of how to phrase his “new clues”. Definition of “associated”:

    as•so•ci•at•ed – adjective
    1. To connect or bring into relation, as thought, feeling, memory, etc. Example: Many people have associated dark clouds with depression and gloom.
    2. Joined as a companion, partner, or ally: Example: “to be associated with a cause.”
    3. United or combined: Example: “coal associated with shale”

    He states “THE treasure isn’t associated with any structure”. Well this particular treasure, if I were to associate it with anything it would be to FF or Romanesque art or gold mines, or even the Rockies etc. because looking at the chest and the contents conjures up those connections just like dark clouds would conjure up a feeling of gloom.

    While he might very well mean it isn’t in or beneath a structure, it has enough of a ??? to it for me not to rule out a structure if the rest of the clues fit. It may cause me to hesitate in plunking down the $$$ to go look because my solution ends with the chest being in a structure, but I won’t completely discount it, either.

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  4. YW, Josh but remember, that’s just my take on the story in general. If you think there may be more hidden within the story (like the truck driver, etc.) don’t let me sway you. I’m just another goofball with no chest in his possession and I may need to re-think (and re-read) the book some more for my own sake.

    If I had any real information I wouldn’t be here babbling, I’d be in the Rockies with a sandwich and a flashlight. LOL I am in the middle of doing some house cleaning with all of my notes, videos, links, etc. and most of it should be pretty well organized again in a few days, so if I can provide anything, just let me know. You can e-mail me directly at: peacemakerol AT hotmail DOT com if you want. Same goes for anyone else.

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  5. I believe it’s in the multiple-part Santa Fe Videos. Not sure which one as there are 24 videos in all, but my wild guess is it’s the one entitled “College” at the following link:

    lummifilm.com/sfi/

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      • Just finished watching the interview of FF on “College.” He more or less said that the threshold moment was realizing that school wasn’t for him and that he should pursue something that he really enjoyed doing, because “what’s this all about anyway.”

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  6. @ Stephanie Davis,

    Definitely agree that you need to know and understand the man. Does anyone have a friend or relative who would, for example, refer to a hot spring or dam as WWWH? Very odd choice of words to describe anything. Why would he refer to it in that way and why, why, why so many other things. Only he knows and the more we know about what makes FF the man, the more we might understand this thing.

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    • I think one of the key things he said is….you don’t need a map. So if you don’t need a map, what do you need? knowledge and imagination.

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    • and I agree, if you know what is important to Fenn, like I said up above, you will know WWWH for FF.

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      • Fenn said look at the poem differently. If you quit looking at it as places, or directions…..and start looking at it as tangible things….you will see why it is so easy to figure out and why he says a child could have done it…..because children sit in school everyday and hear about history and they have an imagination. The canyon down is not a direction, paddles up your creek doesn’t even have anything to do with a creek, not too far but too far to walk has NOTHING to do with walking…..etc.

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  7. Hi Josh,

    All cows, bells and trains aside, that chapter (in my simple, not-looking-for-a-clue-in-every-word-mind) is a turning point or threshold for him because, had he been able to go to college with his buddies, he wouldn’t have to had to choose his ‘Plan B’ in life and join the Air Force and eventually go to war in Vietnam, which is the next chapter in the book “MY War For Me”.

    While all of these other theories may very well have merit, I’m just a K.I.S.S. guy I suppose and I don’t want to let my imagination send me too far out in left field by trying to connect every little thing to the clues. It’s like playing a perverted version of “Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon”.

    Example:
    “The symbol on page 5 looks like a lizard! Jim Morrison from The Doors called himself the Lizard King! A king is a ‘ruler’ and a ruler measures things, so if we measure a lizard……”

    This is how people will lose sight of the chase (IMHO) and I think we will all be surprised once it’s found and how very wrong we all were. Another opinion of mine.

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    • If you are looking for Fenn’s feelings on life, you would be better served to read some of his other books. This book has very little to do with his true feelings, except maybe the war story. If you read the stories carefully you will see they are mostly nonsensical. Someone else on here said you need to know your history in order to solve this puzzle and I believe that as well. You can look for years for different places to begin, but if you don’t know your history and what is important to Fenn and his past (i.e. his childhood) you’ll never figure it out. He tells you exactly what is important in the book and what you should ignore. He mentions windows so often in his book for a reason. The things you see out the windows all lead to one area. He said you don’t need a map to solve the poem and imo that is 100% correct. I didn’t need a map. He says a child could solve it….and they could. He said don’t overthink it….and you shouldn’t it. Everyone assumes it will be outside somewhere, hence the reason he says everyone will be surprised when it is found. I don’t think anyone would be surprised if it was found outside. Take what he says at face value. He means EXACTLY what he says…..imo.

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        • FF says the treasure is not “associated” WITH a structure. associated with just means its not combined or joined with…..putting the chest IN a building or RR car or tower would not be considered joined to that structure. The reason I keep hammering this home is because I asked FF if he considered a RR car a structure or a vehicle. It’s about the word “associated with”…..he’s tricky, that’s why he used that word. He is counting on people taking it literally as he meant it….as in not combined or joined with.

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    • Thanks Peacemaker! Good point! It makes sense that it was a threshold moment because he had to find a Plan B, which ended up taking him to war. For some reason, I got distracted by the fact that the truck driver from A&M appeared to abandon him on the side of the road when FF said he didn’t have money for school.

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  8. Lest we all succumb to the one-track mind approach (i.e., RR track theory), I’d like to return to my original questions first posted on this topic, which might lead to another way of interpreting where the treasure lies:

    Can someone explain the “Stout-Hearted Men” chapter to me?

    Why was it a threshold moment in his life? Did he feel rejected by the stout-hearted men because he had no money?

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    • Because thats the point in time when Forrest decided he didnt need to follow along behind anyone to be successful in his life. All he needed was belief in himself.

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      • Thanks, azuredeb.
        I don’t deny that FF reached that conclusion at some point in his life, but it seems to me that it would have occurred later. After all, when he left A&M he joined the military, where he continued to follow the leadership of others. There has to be something more to why he called his leaving A&M a “threshold moment.” Wish I knew what it was.

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          • There are lots of recordings on Dal’s blog. Any way you can narrow that down for me (and anyone else who might be interested)? Thanks in advance.

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  9. I saw that Mike has gone for the treasure…..and I’m guessing he went to West Yesllowstone? Stout hearted men refers to the first men who traveled to West Yellowstone by RR car. They referred to them as being “stout hearted’ because even thought they were afraid of riding the train, they did it anyway. But rumor has it that they were so afraid that when they laid down in the berths at night, they slept with their shoes on. FF makes references to shoes and being “shoeless” in many of his stories. The shoeless horse was the old iron horse….the steam engine.

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    • he also said that only the phantom knows, I’d heard at one point even tho peeps try to say some other word, at first I’d thought opera, but there is a Phantom Curve on the old Cumbres and Toltec RR here in NM.
      I know Yellowstone is special to him that’s why I think therer but so is spending time with his grandkids on the rivers here 🙂 so go figure I know nothing lol just thought I’d throw that out, that RR also has a lunch stop with all kinds of home baked goodies by the locals, yummy pies! 🙂 lol

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      • I’ve eaten at the oregon shortline which is where i searched the first train and found that clue leading to the marvel gaze. This inside of that car is made of “cherry” wood and the wood etchings were modeled after a “pineapple”. It specifically states that on the articles about old pullmans…..hmmmmm pineapple and cherry pies:) Like I said, I’m out of the chase but just putting the last of all my clues out there.

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        • Also, Kym as you posted in another article, at least I think it was you, the other RR car out there is known as the cow bell.

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          • where? the one in YNP? no that wasn’t me, but I did notice that FF didn’t make any bells shaped like a cow’s bell

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          • I did go hike down a dry canyon yesterday and saw evidence tht cow’s had gone through there also, the rocks were amazing and the clifs and I saw 2 guys climbing their way to the top, stopped and said hello and got a work out on my calves lol I found the water just in time to let myself and my dog cool off after that canyon, it was a good time. I’d like to go back better equipped and explore that canyon tho 🙂

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          • Well, I took the cow bell thing to relate to his comment “if you’ve ever loved a cow….meaning the old RR cars.

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          • and he said he made 2 trips, if it was a train ride then that could be just one round trip with a break in between.

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          • lol….Kym that would be nice, but whether they do or don’t ….God has been so good to me….and I won’t complain 🙂

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      • I believe A & M refers to the famous arkansas/missouri RR and the stout hearted men applies to the RR also.

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          • So you are saying his experience at Texas A&M had no meaning to him; it was merely added to the book to contain hidden clues?

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          • Josh, I’m not saying it had no meaning to him. But he has already said he didn’t get an education. All the stories in his book are just that…..stories. He has said he embellished them with clues.

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  10. I didn’t get this chapter. Can someone explain it to me?

    Why was it a threshold moment in his life? Did he feel rejected by the stout-hearted men because he had no money?

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