Stanza 1

As I have gone alone in there
And with my treasures bold,
I can keep my secret where,
And hint of riches new and old.

477 thoughts on “Stanza 1

  1. Some folks enjoy code breaking, SB’s hints /clues, BOTG or step by step, etc. when attempting to decipher / interpret the poem.

    I would like to see how many readers / searchers use all the different possible interpretation of the poem?
    In one reading of the poem, I can understand a Birth and life theme, if you will.
    In another reading, I can see a life and death theme or interpretation.
    In another reading, I can see a journey… other than FF’s
    In yet another, I can see FF telling of is journey or hiding of the chest.
    I also see a BOTG directions as well.
    And still in another reading a geological event. Just to show a few ways of each reading.

    Is it possible that all the different meanings [ Multiple Meanings and usage ] of not just the words, lines, sentences and stanza, but the different interpretations should be understood and use in a single, significance interpretation to solve the poem as a whole? Difficult, yes… but not impossible.
    This brings me to the question of “need to know where to begin”? Most like “begin it WWWH” and use this as the first clue. This has always confused me why a searcher would dismiss, or think of the first stanza as just and intro. For me the entire book is and intro to the poem. So why spend 15 years refining the poem, as we have been told by the Author, Just to have stanza 1 take up space… for lack of a better term.

    Fenn has stated many times and in many ways, the importance of knowing the first clue. IMO, if the first true clue is WWWH, then there are three possibilities. 1) 100,000 searchers are completely lost in knowing the correct WWWH or it is just a random guess. 2) We are reading the poem incorrectly. 3) Both the first two clues are one in the same.

    What say you…


    • Seeker,
      It is a given we are all reading the poem incorrectlly. But that doesn’t mean some or many have read parts of it correctly. In fact many could have it bang on for one clue or several parts but just are not in the correct area.

      I used to believe that WWWH is the first clue and it still might, but I offer a different perspective. As you know I produced a checklist in my book of Forest Fenn facts that can rule out faulty solutions and or help build confidence.

      Forrest has always said a couple/few have gotten the first TWO clues correctly. But when pushed on how many have the first clue correctly he said he could not (paraphase as I don’t have my notes) give a number indicating he couldn’t count that high. I suggest one goes to Mysterious Writing where he said that.

      If that is the case WWWH is very easy but take it in the canyon down is not. OR the first clue refers to a State (the treasure State) and that is why so many can get that correctly.

      Which means that the second clue is not WWWH but rather: WWWH + “take it in the canyon down” (because of the use of the word “and” which joins the two as one clue)

      If so, WWWH could still be very easy but “take it in the canyon down” may be very difficult.

      What can make it difficult? The canyon may not be colocated or naturally joined to the WWWH (trick) or take and “put in” is not a water reference but something else like a train, etc.

      Hold on I hear you. He says to begin it there right? Well actually he says to begin “it” there. Thus you can get to clue 2 and start with the beginning of “it” and carry on through the poem building and using “it” to find the location of the treasure. That is why one needs to start at the beginning. With out the knowledge of “it” you can’t locate the treasure.

      My two cents…


      • Hey Wolf,

        We could debate what a clue and hint is, as you know I believe the poem is all hints and once understood as a whole… you can just simply see / count the clues. So before I continue, I will say that WWWH is a clue, but just part of one full clue.

        The problem I see is, we the readers attempt to narrow down what we believe to be a clue / hint as we read the poem along. My thought is are we supposed to do that? Could the actual clues present themselves once the entire poem is understood… and… are all the different interpretations needs to do just that.

        Fenn stated the poem is “straightforwards” This to me says; in all honestly, without subterfuge. and yes from a start to finish line of thinking. But it doesn’t say the poem is a single thought!

        So I see other attempting to read the poem in one and only one interpretation… I suggest and ask, is that the correct method?
        This is where most readers differ. Your “IT” and my “IT” become two different thoughts, because of the way we see the poem. Where are we going wrong in how to read the poem.

        As far as, the few got the first two clues… we both know that those searcher may not have known of the clues… Only that they told fenn where they were. HE concluded they were at the first two clues and even stated they may not have known as the went pass the other clues.
        If, as FF est. of 100,000 searchers, and a few being 1%, that leave an est. of 1000 searchers who may have been at the first and second clues… Either we are very stupid as readers and searchers or we don’t truly know the first clue… as fenn has also stated in may ways. If you don’t have the first clue nailed down, all you have is an expensive folley, good memories, or just stay home and play canasta.

        “The most common mistake that I see searchers make is that they underestimate the importance of the first clue. If you don’t have that one nailed down you might as well stay home and play Canasta.” f


        • “As far as, the few got the first two clues… we both know that those searcher may not have known of the clues…” – Seeker

          I actually believe the searchers precisely gave the correct first two clues to FF. He in fact said that he just said he didn’t know if they knew they had it correct (big difference). Then he went on to say that another two parties were at the final destination and were within 500′ but did not know the significance of where they were. I believe these folks gave clues to FF but they were all wrong, but they just happen to visit some place where the treasure is without them knowing that.

          The only way FF could know that is if they told him about their treasure hunting experiences as well as the places they visited while in the search area. How can a searcher be within 500′ and not know it? Because the searcher was not actually searching at that time. So either they drove by it or more likely they were visiting something significant or touristy while taking a break from searching. I mean, not everyone searches 100% of the time while in the search area, some visit things like Our Lady of the Rockies which it very “expensive folly” if one looks up the definition of folly – Our Lady is a nice fit to that definition. Beside the Lady, where the shadow will be cast (up on the ledge (know ledge)), there is a Canasta or small basket shaped rock cutout.

          Also I disagree that few can be expressed in a small percentage. Few by definition is a small “number” of people. 1000 is not a small number.


          • The 1000 was just an example of a “few” or small percentage of the est. 100,000 folks involved with the chase. That would be a “few” and stand in the definitions of the word. But that is neither here nor there.
            {remember, we don’t have all the facts that fenn has, and what his thoughts of a “few” would be in comparison to}.

            To jump to the thought of searchers just happening by the area of the chest, because they were sight seeing… before or after a search or even during… is a leap of faith in my book.

            But I believe [ going by memory at the moment ] the 500′ and the “significance of knowing where they were” are two separate comments. But I’ll be honest and say i need to find and recheck those comments.

            If you have them at the ready… by all means throw them up. But I believe the “significance of where they were” was involved with the first two clues and not the 500′ close to the chest.

            But with all this said… if the first clue[s] is a must know, little chance of finding the chest without it, etc. How can even the “few” know of or was at the first clue[s] and not find the chest? Or could it be that this step by step directional move from one point to another leads the searcher away from the chest hide?


          • There are several quotes he has made about being close. Many thought they were the same parties but FF specifically said close can be a matter of distance to the chest or it can be the number of clues correct. This is one quote:
            “Several months ago some folks correctly mentioned the first two clues to me in an email and then they went right past the other seven, not knowing that they had been so close. Alas, and dame fortune, so often a fickle and seductive wench, never spun her wheel to lure them back.”

            It fits very well with Our Lady as 49dollers pointed out.

            This is the quote that without a doubt separates the two statements:
            ‘There have been some who have been within 500 feet because they have told me where they have been. Others have figured the first two clues and went right past the treasure and didn’t know it.’

            I know it seems like a stretch to see the 500 feet folks as tourists because that would kill everyone else’s solutions. But if one was to look at this objectively (perhaps give it to a kid or an unbiased person), one will see that those within 500 feet have to have fluked it off. Logic says so otherwise they would have gotten more than two clues correct to get there.

            There is no other explanation considering that volumes of data that kill any other explanation.


        • Seeker,
          I agree and do not become consumeed with the 9 clues. I agree that the whole poem contains information or hints and would even say that one clue could have a hint to the next clue.

          I gave an example of how a clue could be divided in half and it doesn’t make a difference as long as the searcher follows the directions/clues sequentially to get them closer.

          What does matter is that when the solution is complete, one must be able to identify those nine clues in sequential order. Forrest was read the second stanza by a reported and asked about if it contained clues and he replied:
          “Sounds like three or four clues to me.”

          So we may not know what is the first clue is, but we do know that the second stanza contains 3 or 4 clues.


          • You and I have had this conversation before… My head still hurts from all that head butting… But I’ll say it here as well.

            Fenn as always used the word clue or clues and has allowed other , such as reporters to do the same. Yet has also come out and stated the useless clues comment. My point is… why only the use of the word clue? and not the use of the word hint.
            In the 66,000 link comment he used the word clue as well. and later stated a clue gets one closer to the chest, a hint helps with a clue.

            Out of all that has been stated over the years… the clues vs hint is my biggest down fall in attempting to understand what “FF” means by a clue. If there are only 9 true clues to solve, how can everything else that is “thought” be a clue… be understood as an actual clue.


          • I hear what you are saying and my thought on clue vs hint is clues are directions that get you closer just like you quoted him saying. Then there is the universal usage of “clue” (just like we call facial tissue Kleenex) he means hint but just calls it a clue. The today show is a perfect example. Do you really think people would tune in to hear FF give a hint? Nope “clue” is much more marketable. So I feel I have a good grip on clue verses hint and I know that won’t work with abstract solutions so I can see why it causes problems. 😉


    • seeker- heres what i say….the fox is dressed as the hound!!!

      your comment is correctly placed at stanza one thread as this is the first clue. where he went alone, and with treasures bold, is the Buffalo Bill Center of the West. Forrest and Peggy Fenn’s names are boldly listed on the wall as you enter, as donors and boy has he donated A LOT to that place. these are the treasures.
      he can keep his secret….. SECRET! mind you, he says SECRET! im shouting for dramatic effect. WHERE!
      he doesnt say treasure. (as in bronze box)
      he doesnt say gold.
      he doesnt say jewels.
      he doesnt say paintings.
      he says keep his SECRET!
      his secret is kept at the museum* and that secret is the fact that you are to take (a photo) of the chest.

      and hint of riches new and old. he is hinting of the Buffalo Bill Center of the West throughout TTOTC.
      the riches are in the MUSEUM! not the riches in the bronze box.

      I think.


      • Its sounds plausible. What about Aspen, CO and the diggings he was involved in just north of there. Denver CO where he stayed many times when he was young. Montana where is mother passed away. So many places where he and Peggy have contributed to, that many of the searchers don’t know about. His best friend of so many years, there is no talk about on any of the blogs. Who was also a main contributor to the chase several times. Then there is Arizona, Utah and Nevada that holds information of a man once traveled. Ah, the infamous bronze chest, do you want to know where and from who he got from? wait for it…

        So why haven’t you figured out the poem Bob?

        Its all good….especially if its not found on the internet.

        It was fun blogging on I must go and leave this place. I wish every one luck and peace. Because that is the way I roll.

        An Indian scout and a Saint.


  2. Yes I saw that last week. Until they actually have it in their hands I wont be holding my breath.
    I feel thats one load of gold that should stay lost. 🙁


    • Nothing should stay hidden. The past is not always pleasant, but still should never be hidden away forever. I don’t know much about this breaking story, but if there are personal possessions within… the families may be very interested to get those back.
      Art and artifacts stolen during the war from museums and such would be interesting to say the least, and to be presented back to the public’s eyes.
      If recovered, and I would be very causes of that process… we have no idea what was placed to protect it. I would be very interested in seeing it.


      • I have no interest in the gold teeth from their mouths. Their families may want back their watches and rings but I am of the belief it should be left for a future generation. The gold was robbed from them and could only cause more heartache. 🙁


        • Well Deb, we don’t know what is actually inside… would be a shame if the art that was also stolen, religious artifacts, as well as other historical items were just left. The younger generation of today know very little about what accrued. Even you and I were after this time in history. As painful for some as it will always be, knowing is just as important as finding. the fact that this would be only a tiny spec of what was hidden at the end of the war… subs were taken out to sea and sunk with all kinds of items on board, bunker buried, trains / train cars hidden…
          I would be very surprised to see a gold tooth… most of those items were melted down for financing the war.
          But I digress, as important as this find is… I floated of the topic.


          • Yes Seeker, I understand the importance of the possibilities. It was a horrific time in world history.
            I agree they are not teaching enough about what happened. In fact, many libraries have removed books dealing with the subject. It should not be forgotten. If it takes a train full of gold to bring it back, then maybe it should be found.

            We also have to consider its just another story, from what I understand are abundant in that area.


          • I do think the history lesson needs to be learned by a new generation. That’s for sure.

            We will have little to do with what Poland decides to do with the spoils of war. Certainly personal items should be returned to relatives. The finders should receive the 10 % they are asking for – seems reasonable for 40 yrs work.

            I am just not ready for what 300 tons of new gold on the market would do to world economies. I sincerely hope there are some smart. just, and fair people involved in this.


          • All –

            Can anyone here explain to me how ground penetrating radar works. How deep it would go in dirt – let’s say a mountain of dirt – and what types of metal would show up.


  3. As treasure hunters we may be interested in the price of gold after this find. The Nazi train may have been found in Poland and is one of three trains believed to be carrying gold and artifacts from Russia. This article has a photo of the Amber Room which is amazing and could also be part of this find. One article I found said there may be 300 tons of gold on the train.


  4. As far as I can tell. No one has asked why in the book that some numbers are spelled out and some are not. There is one number that is very important in its structure and stands way out if you think deep.


  5. .
    as “I” have gone alone in th”E”re
    and with my treasure “S” bold
    i can keep my secret “W” here
    end hint of riches new and old

    I.E., SW




  6. astree:
    Returning to the letter-per-word count in line 3

    1 3 4 2 6 5

    To pick this up, and remind that this is a known technique used in previous puzzles:

    The first two words give the 1 3, which ID this line as Stanza 1, line 3.

    There are 6 words in this line, 6 stanzas in the poem.

    Pick the first letter in each stanza, and re-order per the coded word-letter count

    First letter of each stanza, as given:

    1 2 3 4 5 6
    A B F I S S

    Reorder per the 1:3 code

    1 3 4 2 6 5

    A F I B S S
    A -FIBS- S


    Further, just re-arranging the words of this line in self-reference to its code


    could even look like a reference to an outhouse



    • .

      “tight focus on a word that is kee”

      ICAN KEE p my secret where

      ( last letters )

      I caN keeP mY secreT wherE

      IN TYPE

      ( so, telling us he has put his secret “in type” )


    • Astree – You said, “A-FIBS-S”,…which I translated to signify, Aesop’s-Fables-River (See: fibs = fables, old meaning),…which helped me to find this fable,…about contentment vs. covetousness:

      The story’s moral, according to John Lydgate’s versified Isopes Fabules, is that the one ‘Who all coveteth, oft he loseth all.’


  7. inthechaseto:
    Very true words Deb –

    I keep telling you – you are in the wrong state – but it really doesn’t matter because someone – somewhere –was talking to loud for anyone to hear.Just Kidding.

    When you finally get to your search area and dont find it, let me know if there was a web cam on your site? You will know by blog entries that hint at what you did in your search area if you are in the right place. But the name in the blog wont be yours. Hmmm
    Wait, that wont happen because you are in the wrong state. Just kidding!


  8. Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

    When it comes to comparing Forrest Fenn to Jesus is not something I am willing to do. I prefer to leave religion out of public discussions. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and no one persons religion is above anothers. So parables and berating isnt going to work with me. Plain and simple, this isnt comparable.


    • azuredeb who says I’m comparing Forrest Fenn to Jesus? azuredeb as you tell everyone within this blog, dal’s blog and stephanie’s forum…THINK. What I say is THIN-K but with the HEAR-T.

      As I have gone alone in there, and with my treasures bold, I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old.


    • well i suppose you can go the other direction with this also

      i got an email from someone and they said that the correct solution to the poem was predicated on the understanding that forrest was in fact the antichrist


    • Azuredeb – OK,…I guess I’ll go back to times B.C. then,…and talk about things ‘com parable’ or ‘com parabola’ to Forrest’s seeming interest in all-things-Mathematica. I can’t post a link here ( absolutely NO pun intended),…so check out the parabola and ellipsis definitions on several “Math is Fun” sites by googling them. Please note the rainbow-like shapes and the word ‘focus’ in the diagrams. The etymology and definitions I found in the dictionaries for parabola were interesting, too. And for some,…math and science were like a religion (ie. Isaac Newton),…and some we’re burned as heretics for that (ie. Giordano Bruno).


    • vgboss – Thank you for posting that video from “The Bible” with the episode showing J.C. Vs. Satan in the desert. I noticed that the same actor played Pontius Pilate in that scene,…as the one that played him in “Son of God” (which makes sense, since Mark Burnett and Roma Downey produced that miniseries, too). I only saw up to the episode with Noah and the Ark, when I had a TV.


  9. .

    “Tea” has been a part of major puzzles in the past:


    “but only a few are in tight focus with a word that is key”

    T ight focu S

    “containing NINE clues that if followed precisesly”

    “as I have gone alo NEIN there”

    Any one care to pick the letter before the “T” in each line of the first stanza?

    (IWGOLF, you might get a kick out of this!)




    • Tight focus, the trail cam focused on the search area that allows him to see the search area.
      The word cold, which can mean hidden far from the search area.

      The reason he knows so much . The reason why some assume they have been hacked and how some have been accused of being a hacker? Because he has been with us posting all along.


        • It really doesnt matter what I or anyone else believes because no body else believes anything the other person says.

          As VGBoss pointed out, even if I posted my whole solve nobody would believe it. Even if Forrest posted a full solve nobody would believe it.

          Good luck everyone.Get out and smell some sunshine.


          • Very true words Deb –

            I keep telling you – you are in the wrong state – but it really doesn’t matter because someone – somewhere – was talking to loud for anyone to hear. Just Kidding.


          • 1 Peter 1:8
            Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,


            Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


          • vgboss – I think Pinocchio would have liked that video,…and I did, too,…very much,… thank you! If I have faith like Peter wanted to have,…maybe I could cross the water,…to my spot,…and then “your effort will be worth the cold” would be almost a whole line I could just ignore (unless I go now,…on cross-country skis,…with an ice-carving chainsaw strapped to my back,…but then that would sort of be walking on water, too, wouldn’t it?)


  10. .
    “ASI” have gone alone in there …

    Anasazi ? or

    There is a black drink, called ASI, in the Creek language of the US. It was used as a substitute for tea …


    • astree: .
      “ASI” have gone alone in there …
      Anasazi ? or

      There is a book that I found this morning and I think it could be an important clue as to why Forrest wants the bracelet back.

      ….– and the name of it is “Cliff Dwellers Of The Mesa Verde”.Do not confuse this with “Land of the Cliff Dwellers”.

      Nicely done, itct !


  11. Mike:
    Your’s and inthechaseto’s spot and method sound similar.Perhaps you two should invest in a good pair of running shoes.

    Good one, Mike. Or maybe snowshoes, or even the new combo, called, er .. yeah. snikes.


  12. Chris Yates

    i know where it is but im waiting for warmer weather


    I believe the solution is very precise about the location, and Forrest said you could walk right up to it.

    The litmus test I am using, this winter, is .. If it were under that much snow, out in my yard, would I go and dig it out, given the level of certainty of the solve?

    The only difference between that and the trip, is the cost of the trip, and the time to make it. Is it worth it, or impossible to get to in the winter?



    • the solution is very precise

      i found the smoking gun of the clues, it gives you the location down to a 3 foot 7 inch radius circle at its widest point

      Forrest said you could walk right up to it, but i dont think he means it is out in the open, i think he means that you can walk right up to its location

      if i am wrong about that, it won’t hurt me. but if you are wrong then that could prevent you from finding it

      if someone believes so strongly that you can walk right up to the treasure, and because they want to believe that they so precisely understand Forrest’s exact meaning, that they walk right up to the actual location, but then they dont see the treasure there, so they figure its not there, this then results on them missing out on an extremely valuable treasure. i will never be that guy.

      i can tell you, when i go to that location, i will do what is necessary to uncover it.

      it was hidden in a place an 80 year old man went. he parked his car and walked there. it is not a dangerous place. several people and maybe more have been within hundreds of feet. this means it is in a place that accidental discovery would be very possible maybe even likely unless it is hidden extremely well. i can tell you, if you are in the right spot, there is going to be some work, there is going to be some serious recon you will need to do. don’t kid yourself or it could cost you a million plus treasure.

      there will be people who will go to this place because they are guessing at some of the clues. out of all the guessing people, some may walk right near or right over the place. Forrest knew this, and he didn’t want anyone guessing at the spot to stumble upon it.


      • Chris, I’m curious if you ever succeeded in finding coordinates that led you to this place. I know you can’t reveal the coordinates or where they are in the poem or book, just wondering if you feel that you found them or not.


          • .
            That’s incredible. This is not the same spot you had actual searched previously, and you’ve re-focused your effort to this solve for only the last 3 – 4 months ?


          • its the same area ive searched 3 times already

            the place where the treasure is at i physically walked on that ground last time and went right over it on the way to where i thot it was


          • I have found the Lat and Log coordinates from the book, up to the decimal point. IE: NN.???? and NNN.???? I don’t have the question mark parts.


          • .
            Thanks Chris. Must be a sort of mixed bag of emotion – the long trip(s) and walking right over it, vs having more information. Does this explain the heightened interest in medal detectors?

            Musstang – Do you think your spot is in the same area as Chris?


      • Chris you said 3 foot 7 inches in diameter?…. not just 43 inches in diameter???? sooooo…… how big is a man-hole cover?? aren’t those made in a foundry as well? hmmmm so even if we were standing right on top of it, it wouldn’t give way. lol << jus thinkin out loud lol it's nuttin' honey! lol


          • lol Hagrid,,, I wasn’t trying to get any math equation done lol.. I will kiss the guy who invented the calculator! LOL That is always the farthest from my mind. It just struck me as funny saying 3 foot 7 inches instead of just 43 inches total.
            I guess all the measuring for curtains lately has gone to my head! LOL ahhhhh… too funny. C’est La Vie!


  13. I think this will be of interest to inthechaseto.
    “as I have gone…”
    A sigh, half gone…

    Google “a sigh half gone” leads to the prologue of Lewis Carrol’s “Through the looking glass”


  14. .

    astree: 64 = TIGHT

    So previously explained that the 64thand 128th letters of the poem are


    And the letters preceeding and following the poem are




    The shift forward on “TIGHT” by 11 and 12 letters gives


    and backwards 1 on FOCUS gives


    which means “high place”

    Fibonacci and various other number-letter selection schemes were previously posted.

    Here, the binary sequence 1,2,4,8,16,32,64 is used (per the above TIGHT FOCUS)






  15. .
    Returning to the letter-per-word count in line 3

    1 3 4 2 6 5

    and applying to “TREASURES”

    1 3 4 2 6 5
    T R E A S U …

    reposition the letters


    I don’t believe this would mean to tear the pages ( as TARE is an old form of TEAR ), but perhaps to net the “T” that is between “U S” in the alphabet.



    • 🙂 Astree,

      Tare #2,
      1. the weight of the container holding goods.
      2. A deduction from the gross weight to allow for this.

      Bronze RLB is container holding AU # 79.
      Deduct the Bronze RLB weight, results in goods weight.
      RLB & AU # 79 weight = 42 or 44 lbs.
      AU # 79 weight is at least 20.2 lbs Troy.
      Bronze weight is approximate at around 20 ish lbs.
      Result will give olive jar, magnifying glass, TTOTC minature Book, 2 hairs, wax seal, all the Jewels, wood, & unknown contents weight.
      2 Trips, Secrete Treasure, but was this done 1 day trip?

      🙂 Match, Strike, Spark, Blaze, Fire, Light

      🙂 The Golf Chess & Cheese Society


  16. Bingo… I just found a paper ff wrote about some work he did in Colorado above HOB. I need to do more research on the people or his close friends he was with around 1960. Not sure if any of it means anything.


  17. Bur:
    Forrest help built it with Skippy & Donnie in 1962.

    Forrest does stay there if he’s in the area and gets room # 4 because that’s where Ronald Reagan stayed and lock hisself out of his room and no one was in the office so he crawled in the back window. My question is why didn’t Forrest mention this in the TTOTC since he considered Skippy like a god?


  18. Geydelkon:
    I haven’t either. Just having a thought of why not Colorado. Seen a few bloggers who feel its in Colorado. I have been on a search in Colorado for a nice Texas lady but came up empty handed for her. Yet, I have found where he has been everywhere around the Rockies even in Arizona but not Colorado. Maybe I need to dig more in my state.

    Gey, there are a few reasons Forrest has been in CO, can’t say them because they lead to that common thread. Gey I just come across something, does “the dude” mean anything to you or anyone else here? I believe you will like the answer.


  19. Jack:
    Elementary, Dear Watson.
    FF hid a treasure in the Rocky Mountains.
    The Rocky Mountains are in Colorado.
    No one has found the treasure.
    No one has found evidence of FF in Colorado.
    Therefore the treasure must be in Colorado.

    Jack – Reverse psychology Does that work for you


  20. <blockquote

    Nope, he wouldnt do that.

    Please dont lose faith anyone.

    Im not in a good mood so wont say too much. Just dont give into negative thoughts.



  21. .
    In math and nature, Fibonacci’s sequence begins as (0,1),1,2,3,5,8,13,21

    “As I have gone alone in there”

    Now, take the second line and pick the letters corresponding to the Fibonacci sequence, yields:

    AND IM AL ….

    “As I have gone alone in there …
    AND IM AL …”


  22. Hi Astree,

    Just click on stanza 1(highlighted) block to the left of s1l1 highlighted block by mouse move
    this link gets you back here for now if not.

    🙂 TGC&CS


  23. Mike:
    Isn’t the fact that FF did not respond as you expected (if you were right) a strong hint that you are wrong.A bold and inventive idea, Bob, but I doubt if FF planned on a lawsuit as the desired end to the chase.If you were right we would have been celebrating by now (IMO).

    Mike- Forrest’s response to me “what can I do for you?” indicates to me that I am right.
    I’ve read here and other places that usually he responds with “keep searching” or “good luck in your search” to me he’s telling that person they may be on the right path, maybe not.
    It’s clear to me that Forrest and dal want this treasure hunt to go on indefinitely. I’m sure you’ve noticed on Dal’s blog his focus is on entertainment or socializing. The clue discussion there is six months old to us here on your blog.
    I call his blog the kiddie pool, here at mikes is adult swim.
    So no, mike I do not take Forrest’s response to me as a no. I take it as him saying- “your solution is correct, how can I appease you for the time being as I don’t want this tresure hunt game I’ve created to end just yet. This is great entertainment for an 83 year old man.”


    • I took his question as just that, he wants you to tell him your thoughts. What do you have to lose by doing that? The worst that could happen is he tells you that you are wrong.


  24. “In there” is a place where he endured with stoicism.
    He pretty much alluded to that.

    Could be a physical place or not, hard to tell if you haven’t been through the same…


  25. Hmmm

    I still don’t think I am getting my point across.

    Not that what I have to say is important, but
    it helps develop my communications skills
    and continue to generate more discussion
    along this line.

    Here goes.

    This is just one of my many theories (and Bob
    don’t put me under oath for this one 🙂

    Yes, stanza 1 is very important; actually
    one of the most important stanza’s of the
    entire poem.

    I don’t think it is the “the blaze”. Of course that is MHO.

    ff is a writer. What does he put at the beginning of every

    Why not put it at the beginning of a poem?

    Now, he said he chose all his words – very carefully.

    I’m not saying anything else.

    I did explain it in more detail and deleted it, because dang
    as I continued to write about it – I thought – Wow that is
    really good. Didn’t know I had any good ideas left .
    Oh no, I can’t post it – delete, delete, delete 🙂


    • Well, in fact I agree with the idea that the first stanza could be talking about the blaze, and Forrest is describing his experience of placing the treasure at it’s final resting place, but the blaze is mentioned later, and more specifically, so if we are going to count the blaze as one of the nine clues, which I do, it should be counted where it is mentioned by name. Which of the clues are one of the nine may be important to someone whose idea may be completely destroyed by Forrest’s comment that many searchers have got the first two clues right but then went right past the treasure. That is why it became important to me.


      • I agree also that the blaze could be in any of the stanza’s.

        But for this particularly theory, you may find it hard to believe but none of the clues I’ve deduced uses the word blaze.

        Perhaps we are to take it for granted without using the actual line as a clue?

        Same with gold.

        Perhaps we should take it for granted we’re going to take the TC if we find it regardless.

        Just brainstorming 🙂


    • Itj-lol, from the day you joined in on our story about chasing geydelkon with the penguins and polar bears, you became a member of the imagineers. Lol. Your input was not asked for but was wholeheartedly welcomed. Who am I to put you under oath?


  26. So one of the 9 clues is in the first stanza then?

    Its always been my thought that the blaze is how and why he devised the poem and picked the location. So the blaze is a more abstract than it is a physical. Its an idea that corresponds to a place.

    In the first stanza he is discussing the blaze, he is talking about the course he plotted. When you
    finally figure out what the book is about you can trace
    back through the stories to one concept that ties the
    whole thing to a place. I know this is vague and many
    of you will balk , because you arent thinking about the poem and book as a whole.

    So yes the first stanza is important, and so are the last two. As usual, just my opinion.


  27. Announcer: and now, Daily Affirmation… With AzureDeb.

    Azuredeb: I’m going to do a terrific show today! And I’m going to help people! Because I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and doggonit, people like me!
    Today my guest is Bob, I’ll protect your anonymity and not reveal your last name Bob.

    Bob: thank you deb.

    Deb: now bob is a treasure hunter, and bob you should be very proud of yourself!

    Bob: thank you deb, I am.

    Deb: good for you bob! (clapping hands)
    Now bob, I know there is a lot of pressure on you to find Forrest Fenn’s treasure. I imagine you lying awake at night before a search thinking…I’m not good enough…everybody else is better than me…I’m not going to find the treasure.

    Bob: actually deb, no.

    Deb: bob. Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt!

    Bob: well, sometimes bears are a concern.

    Deb: Yes! And bob, that’s oh-Kay. You are not alone. I know what it’s like. Thinking the bears might eat you…ah, I might get lost…these are negative thoughts bob, stinking thinking. I want you to replace these with something positive bob, a daily affirmation.

    Bob: affirmation?

    Dab: yes bob now look in the mirror with me… Bob look in the mirror, only you can help you. There. Now say hello bob.

    Bob: hello bob.

    Deb: now say, I don’t have to solve the poem.

    Bob repeats: I don’t have to solve the poem.

    Deb: all I have to do is be the best I can be.

    Bob: all I have to do is be the best I can be.

    Deb: bob, you feel better now don’t you?

    Bob: you know what deb? I’m over myself! How can I ever thank you?

    Deb: some gold coins would be nice.


  28. inthechaseto:
    Couldn’t “in there” mean somewhere special – near and dear to his heart, and at the same time – under the trees of a forest?Or as has been said one way in and one way out.

    I’m thinking a box canyon, one way in, one way out, but there are hundreds of them. What would make one more special than another? My guess would be the person he was with at the time they discovered it. If that’s the case.


      • More meaning, sure, but is one of the 9 clues in that first stanza? I don’t think so. I think the nine clues start with the 2nd stanza (2 clues), the 3rd stanza (4 clues), and the first 3 lines of the 4th stanza (3 clues). There are other clues and hints but only 9 main clues that will lead to the treasure, according to Forrest. Of course everyone has their opinion, and Forrest won’t say which are the 9.


        • Havent we all learned that everything in the poem and book has more than one meaning? I wouldnt throw out any of the stanzas.

          He called it architecture, meaning hidden foundations.Think about it.


        • Mike in a radio interview with Forrest called “As It Happens ” aired March 2013 the radio announcer read Stanza Two complete and she said to Forrest it sounds like there is a “couple of clues in there ” and Forrest’s reply back was ” it sounds more like three or four to me” so that states to me at least one for each line.


          • Yep

            and I think of that interview everytime I look at the 2nd stanza.

            Either uses up 1/3 of clues or almost 1/2.

            So is it possible only need one more stanza and 1 line from another stanza to complete the 9 clues?



          • Itj I also believe there are hints along with the clues in the poem. You need to understand “why” to determine what they are.


      • Deb


        I was afraid I wouldn’t say what I meant the way I wanted it to mean 🙂

        Guess I didn’t.

        I see it did generate ideas though. Never hurts.

        But if I say it right this time it is a gift of sorts. Can’t think
        of a better word. Maybe someone can.

        However, some might see it as circular in nature.

        Start at the beginning and end at the first stanza.

        Then the first stanza would be using up some of the 9 clues.

        Makes it harder.


        • Here’s what I think regarding the
          “nine clues”.

          It’s possible – If you spend most of your time counting them – trying to make them add up – it’s a total waste of time, and you will go right by the treasure.

          I think it’s a red herring and a diversion. .

          So, I haven’t concentreted on how many clues there are – as I think there are more than nine – and if more than nine – why count?


    • 🙂 Itj,


      1st clue is the title ( THE POEM, or unnamed /untitled)

      2nd clue is each word is deliberate results in each text letter Color- Reddish definitely corresponds Word Color. I have no doubt of this as a clue, it may be the 1st clue.



  29. Inthechaseto-
    I been chewin on your comment from the other day, here’s what I’m spittin out….
    You want Horatio back?
    OK, here’s the deal.

    You buy 100 copies of TTOTC.
    (I’m sure you get a quantity discount)
    Sign them like this:

    To: (whomever)
    Your ideas are fantastic!
    What can I do for you?
    Signed: inthechaseto

    Send them to the first 99 searchers who ask for one here on Mikes blog.

    I get copy number one, make sure they are numbered.

    After all 100 copies are spoken for, I will bring back Horatio.

    I wil give the troops Horatio for free when you start giving away books for free.


  30. Liv:

    To me this would be the way it should’ve been written, if the chest is hid/buried under the open skies.

    Perhaps you answered your own question regarding open skies.

    “out there” works the way you use it. “In there” usually implies entering something… in our case a mountain range, a canyon, even a river which all can be “out there”. I think entering some place is what he was trying to convey. I’ve read some posts that thought “in there” meant getting the chest from his safe at his home, getting in his airplane and even his deepest innermost thoughts.

    just wondering though… could “in there” indicate closeness relating to distance and “out there” indicate further away? I don’t think I’ve seen either used that way, but wonder if they could be. I have used “out in the boondocks” to mean far away. “in there” might be a clue for NM or CO.



  31. ltj:
    But Bob would the line As I have gone in there alone have validity?

    Because he could never have gone into the museum alone and placed an object without someone noticing it at some point and time and discovering the TC for themselves and keeping the contents.

    Although your search story is indeed intriguing and keeping us entertained

    Itj- the treasure chest is not at any museum. The poem guides you to the blaze.


    • Now you really have me confused.

      Problem is by the time I finish reading all the new posts I have totally forgotten everything except maybe the first and last “impression”.

      I guess I have to go back and re-read everything.

      I’m worse than Arnie – my redneck friend.

      When I asked him to read the poem – he said “can’t read – only went to 8th grade in public school”.

      So I tried to get him to memorize it – guess booze killed all his brain cells or he wasn’t motivated. By the time we got to the second line – he completely forgot the first.

      But I couldn’t criticize poor fellow because

      That’s me also. 🙂

      But after Georgia in the lounge gave me the book – Redneck’s for Dummies, I realized he wasn’t a redneck after all.

      Georgia said redneck’s are called redneck’s because they worked in the sun all day doing chore’s ie. farming and whatnot and are hard working, industrious people and are generally honest with integrity.

      I thought dang – never find someone like that in the D.C. area. All they have here are Lobbyist, Politician and Bankers.


      • .


        I’m in Silver Spring, work by the zoo in the city ( the zoo with the animals, not the other ones you mentioned).

        Where are you ?



        • LOL – good analogy.

          I did work a variety of places in DC metro area, even had a job interview in Silver Springs and was offered a position. That was before they started out-sourcing all high tech jobs overseas.

          I am retired now and have moved away from the area.

          But I see you are still dealing with all the crazies and crazy traffic 🙂

          Heard it is even worse since I left. I can’t begin to imagine it getting worse.


  32. Mike:
    Do we need to create a new room here– the lounge, the couch, what’s next?

    LOL ok Mike I will not say things like that anymore Just my sense of humor


  33. Bob:
    Into- lol, lol and more lol. I already got plenty of well being and happiness….I need cash!

    Ok I agree Bob –

    Who doesn’t need money in this screwy world that we have created. We all do. Have you really done your homework? There are a few in the chase history that could care less about money. Money makes the world go round – don’t you get it – it’s not the money – it’s what you do.


    • Into- of course I “get it” horatio is always in me that’s why I’m happy. I chose to share him with followers of the blog for two reasons- 1. A place to exercise my writing skills(or lack of) and stimulate creative thought in others to help solve the poem. For me, this was always the key to the solution. Imagination and wordplay.


  34. Bob:
    Inthechaseto- this is what I believe to be the chest the poem leads to. At an archaeologicaldisplay at contains electronic devisesI believe to be GPR units. The man kneeling is part of the display,a mannekin, diggingin dirt. The wooden chest holds equipment used at a dig site. There is a backpack on top of the chest partiallycovering a word. Only the letters “IN” are exposed. I believe if you have the courage to reach into the display and look in the chest- this then is “brave and in the wood”

    Well – since you looked inside and there was only equipment – I don’t see how that would be a correct solution. I really think your’s and Zelda’s idea was quite brilliant.

    But, IMO the wrong one. If you are in the right place – you will know it 100% after writing to FF. Don’t think too many have done that – and if they did – I’ll bet he does not want a presuptive type person to win. An attitude of gratitude is what is needed there – I know this is going right over your head.

    I can’t imagine a rep of the museum would not let you see what letters are on that chest and you and Zelda would know that if you opened it. Or maybe you guys opened it without the backpack fallling off? Don’t think so. Nothing is really adding up here Bob.


    • Inthechaseto- nice guys finish last.

      Only equipment? Understand this-that box contains THE blaze which is all that is needed to earn the treasure.

      Yes, we are both brilliant.

      We were in the right place, and have written him.

      Attitude of gratitude? Not until I have my hands on the prize.

      Right over my head?
      Actually I had to pick your comments up off the floor to read the jibberish.

      Yes, the backpack did not fall off I held it in place to keep the letters IN exposed properly.

      It all adds up had you done well in grade school.

      Cold from you too inthechaseto? Man it’s gonna be a long, hard winter.

      Don’t make me get out my Horatio!


          • LOL –

            Most likely the US Airforce –

            But really Bob – Horatio was fun, humorous, on target, optomistic and a nice guy –
            where has that gone?


          • Isn’t the fact that FF did not respond as you expected (if you were right) a strong hint that you are wrong. A bold and inventive idea, Bob, but I doubt if FF planned on a lawsuit as the desired end to the chase. If you were right we would have been celebrating by now (IMO).


  35. Well –how’s that workin for ya?

    Very interesting solution but what’s the next step? This solution raises many questions regarding how to proceed.

    What do you expect in return of your email and how does this solution work when Mr. Fenn is no longer available to respond?

    I want to applaud you… but I’m not sure what for.



    • Jdh- applaud Zelda and I for finding the blaze.
      I first emailed Forrest back on 9-17-2013.
      This has been going on for awhile as Dal indicated on his blog just as he barred me.
      I just counted 18 emails between Forrest and I, ending on around 10-1-2013.
      He never said I was right, never said I was wrong. Sound familiar?
      How I wish he would have sent me a “keep searching Bob” he never did.
      Here’s what he did say- “so what can I do for you?”
      I thought to myself, I want you to give me the gold! Why else would I be sending you my solution to the poem?
      Obvious to me whomever is involved in this nonsense wants the gold! Right?
      But when I told him this he kept asking the same thing-“what can I do for you?”

      So I says to myself- alright [WORD DELTETED- insult]! Here’s what you can do for me!
      And I emailed Forrest these three things.
      1. Contact Chuck Preston, tell him to have TV coverage there at the museum of me removing the chest from the display.
      2. Give me your lawyers phone number so I can give them my SS# for a background check.
      3. Arrange a celebration for everyone involved with this thrill of the chase…Dal, Stephanie, and everyone on the blogs.

      To my surprise he did one of the three, the Fenn Celebration on 10-1-2013.

      Go figure, haven’t heard anything from him since.


      • You really told FF to do all those things?

        And what pray tell were you going to be doing in the mean time?

        What can we do for you Bob?


        • Inthechaseto- I really did I still have all the emails back and forth to Forrest I’m hoping someday to share them all. The prize is what 3 million? I ain’t foolin around. Forrest is a strong person and respects strength. Falling at his feet and showering him with flattery will get you nowhere. And one more thing I never ever asked him one single question only made bold statements. Now, it’s all in the hands of my lawyers Dewey, Cheatem and Howe.


      • Someone correct me if I am wrong – don’t have time to research this.

        Did not ff say TC not associated with a structure.

        Yes Bob – I remember you did post on the meaning of a structure. I think 🙂

        However IMHO – I think ff was forced to tell us the truth here – so we wouldn’t do damage to anyone’s property or get in trouble with the authorities.

        I think ff is a stand-up person and admire many of his traits. Won’t go into them now.


  36. Bob:
    Inthechaseto- Yes! Do not touch!
    You cannot physically removethe chest from the museum.
    “just take(a photograph of) the chest and go in peace”
    Which is what I have done.
    Tarry scant- stay short, marvel gaze- with wonderlook. This is what you do when viewingdisplays at a museum. Usually carrying a camera. Forrest then instructs you to “take the chest”…a photograph. And then I emailedhim the photo of the chest containing the GPR or, blaze.

    Well – how’s that workin for ya?


    • Bob –

      Why don’t you just post a photo of what you found here, give Mike a little credit for having the blog that found it, and if we think you have found it, we will make sure he responds to you pronto.


      • Bob asked me to post this photo we took at the Draper. We were there twice in September. The first time we lifted the lid and looked inside. The second time we made an appointment with the curator and had an escort, so of ourse the second time we could not touch anything. Which is appropriAte. The TC IS NOT at the Draper.
        It is a very worthy museum and should be well respected.
        But, this chest is there and this is the actual photo.


        • I don’t understand what I’m seeing in the photo – could you explain.

          If you llfted the lid – what did you see or find?

          And if you told FF – what’s up with no responce?


          • Inthechaseto- this is what I believe to be the chest the poem leads to. At an archaeologicaldisplay at contains electronic devisesI believe to be GPR units. The man kneeling is part of the display,a mannekin, diggingin dirt. The wooden chest holds equipment used at a dig site. There is a backpack on top of the chest partiallycovering a word. Only the letters “IN” are exposed. I believe if you have the courage to reach into the display and look in the chest- this then is “brave and in the wood”


          • But Bob would the line As I have gone in there alone have validity?

            Because he could never have gone into the museum alone and placed an object without someone noticing it at some point and time and discovering the TC for themselves and keeping the contents.

            Although your search story is indeed intriguing and keeping us entertained 🙂


  37. Bob:
    Woody Bogg – I know I’m right.

    Bob you say you know your right I also have found a very interesting blaze and I think I’M right every detail falls into place So we shall see my friend


  38. Bob:
    Woody- straight. FF said “oh, it’s out there all right” meaning the blaze.
    Read the cheat sheet on Dal’s blog keeping in mind whenever Forrest says “it’s” he’s talking about the blaze. Not the treasure. Again, IMO!
    “look quickly down” is a descriptor for the blaze- a GPR unit.
    This is what you are looking for, not the treasure.
    Once you find the GPR unit your search is over.
    Whenever Forrest uses the word “it’s” he talking about the blaze, not the treasure. IMO!

    Here are some statements from Forrest

    “The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over…”

    “All of the information you need to find the treasure is in the poem”

    “What serious adventurers should remember, is to not believe anything that is not in my poem or otherwise in my book. There’s some misinformation out there. For instance, I never said I buried the chest, I said only that I hid it.”

    “Nevertheless the story about my treasure chest is true”

    “I knew exactly where to hide the chest so it would be difficult to find but not impossible. It’s in the mountains somewhere north of Santa Fe.”

    “I said on the Today show that the treasure is not associated with any structure. Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true. There are no notes to be found or safety deposit boxes to be searched. The clues can lead you to the treasure, and it will be there waiting when you arrive.”

    So according to you, Bob, what we are looking for is the blaze, and the treasure is not out there hidden, waiting for us to find it.

    So after reading the above statements that very clearly say “treasure”, I can only conclude one of two things. Either you are one of the people Forrest is talking about, you are saying F has a desire to mislead, in other words, you believe Forrest is lying …. Or you having a difficult time understanding the english language, because what F is saying in the above statements is very plain and direct.

    When you say, “in my opinion”, the question is, is that really an opinion? Because it depends. If you are are presuming, as I think all of us here are, that when F said he hid a treasure chest in the Rocky Mountains, and that it will be waiting for us when we arrive, that he is telling the truth, that is what we are presuming, then what you say couldn’t be an opinion.

    If I thought F was lying about the most important and fundamental thing about this whole chase, then I wouldn’t think there was a treasure to be gained at all, that this whole thing would be just a hoax.

    So if we are presuming that F is not lying about this, then what you are saying ISN’T AN OPINION, because it contradicts stated FACTS by Forrest himself.

    Now if you are saying it is your opinion Forrest is misleading us, and lying to us, so that we think the treasure is hidden and is what we are looking for (when it is not) and this is what your theory is based on, then you need to just come out and say that. Because that is the only way your ‘opinion’ could be true.

    When Forrest says “Some people say I have a desire to mislead. That is not true.”, what I get out of that statement is primarily 2 things

    (1) Forrest is letting us searchers know that there are people out there like Bob and others who will themselves mislead and misinform us

    (2) Forrest is saying understand that I have more than a small problem with people who make me out to be a liar


    • Chris- I am smart enough to find the blaze, which will EARN me the hidden treasure.

      Also, I am smart enough not to allow you to drag me into your arena to do battle.


  39. .

    There had been a question recently, as to why the poem begin with ” as ” intstead of a word like ” since ” .

    There have been multiple posts over the last few months ( previous to the question ) pointing to the importance of this. One of the posts was in response to Chris, showing him that Forrest commented on that issue. Another posts related to a numeric code in the poem.

    There are at least five other references, one more will be given here. If anyone has a copy of the original version of the poem posted on Forrest’s website, you will see that two letters were “mistakenly” omitted.



      • ok thats really wierd

        i see the missing letter

        i had made a post before where i put forth an idea about the meaning of as i have ‘gone alone’, which i admit might be way out there

        but i had a reason though it may be abstract, of saying that. the idea was ‘gone alone’ may refer to ‘gone’ ‘lone’ ‘a’, which would be making the ‘lone’ ‘a’ ‘gone’ or .. remove the lone ‘a’

        it had to do with the title of the book TTOTC, but now this shows a lone ‘a’ removed form the poem.

        just can’t help but noticing that but i can’t make any connection as a clue right now


      • .
        At this point, numerous ( but not nearly all) examples have been given, as to how Forrest encoded in his comments, and the poem.

        The poem begins and end with –

        AS … GOLD


        How many AS of GOLD are in the chest ?



    • astree
      Hey, you have “as” at the beginning of your name, right?

      Seriously, I think that every word and sequence in the poem is the given way, and we can question why Forrest used that word in that context with other words, but that is the entire point. What do we make of those words as given, and what do the words, phrases, stanzas and the entire poem mean?

      If we question the word “As”, we can also question every single word in the poem and ponder why this word or why another was not used in that place. So what might you learn about “As” by questioning why Forrest selected that word, or rather, drawn that word as an architect?

      I see the word “As” used here being analogous in meaning to the word “Because”: Because I have gone alone in there And with…I can keep my secret where, And hint of riches… As I have done this, now I can do these things.

      As I have gone and with, I can keep and hint.

      The words “As I” also feel more poetically apt than the words “Since I”. I see no problem of tense here. Not that the use of “Since” is impossible, but I really don’t like the poem beginning with Since. “Since” feels awkward to me.

      And for those of you who are analyzing the poem mathematically for every letter or word, I would expect that you need for it to be put exactly this way for it to function properly.

      One might also believe that it is significant that the first letter of the poem is a capital A and not a capital S.

      Now, how about the awkwardness of the word “Just” used twice in those ways?



      • Morning,

        As opposed to the semanic value of the word “as”, I was pointing to repeated reference to it by Forrest ( some examples given over the last month or so ).

        If I choose to not play chess, but roulette, and keep seeing a “1” and “19” come up, I’d start wondering if there wasn’t some meaning.



        Anyway, hope all is well and good luck,


        • I hear Forrest using many words and phrases over and over again. Although I think that he enjoys re-telling things for people who are just discovering him now (ie the Catcher in the Rye stories), it may be his nature to repeat certain words often.

          He may repeat himself more now that he is older as many do, and is waxing poetic about his life, but I can’t compare him to a younger Forrest.

          We all listen to his words on the recent interviews and we jump on the new words or phrases, but we also hear many that were told before. This is not a criticism, but an observation regarding the re-surfacing of words and ideas by Forrest in the chase, and it makes it difficult to judge if he is emphasizing or just repeating.

          How often have we heard him say “Smell the sunshine”? A person can go mad looking for signs while betting at the little wheel.



        • .




          see, that was yesterday, the following was just posted today

          Did you know…
          From Wikipedia’s new and recently improved content:

          that a fort is being excavated in Unnao, India, for a possible 1000 tons of gold treasure?

          and jumping to the reference

          ,[15] while ASI officials at the site have said that the excavation may take months, or even years, as they are using only simple basic tools like grub hoes, pick mattocks and fork cultivators. The ASI has designated an area of 80 meters from east to west and 40 meters from north to south near the fort for the excavation.[16]”

          said reference evening mentioning the HOE ( no paddle up your creek )



      • .

        Halogetter: If we question the word “As”, we can also question every single word in the poem and ponder why this word or why another was not used in that place.


        You are referring to “as” in the Level 1 (plaintext) sense, I believe.



        • I believe I was looking at the analagous “Because”, so yes. But I feel that I know whay he would have to use “As I…” in lieu of something else.

          Did you get anywhere else with ASI?

          Had to re-read this thread, and maybe re-examine a few things.



    • I’m a little more puzzled by “in” than “as”.

      Why not: “As I have gone alone out there”?
      To me this would be the way it should’ve been written, if the chest is hid/buried under the open skies.


      • You can go in a wooded area, or in a ravine, arroyo, or depression/niche, etc., and you are still OUT there.

        And “alone in there” is not necessarily the hiding place.



  40. Bob:
    Woody- no, I did not look down.
    “look quickly down” is not the physical act of directing ones gaze at a speed greater than normal. Lol

    This phrase is the first puzzle I tackled in solving the poem.
    I used to think the tresure was really out there to be found, now I think not.
    My first solution to “look quickly down was that it was double entendre for “see rapids below”
    In 3 searches to Wyoming and Montana this is what I was looking for- a trail marker that said “see rapids below”
    Now I know better.

    Woody- no, I did not look down.
    “look quickly down” is not the physical act of directing ones gaze at a speed greater than normal. Lol

    This phrase is the first puzzle I tackled in solving the poem.
    I used to think the tresure was really out there to be found, now I think not.
    My first solution to “look quickly down was that it was double entendre for “see rapids below”
    In 3 searches to Wyoming and Montana this is what I was looking for- a trail marker that said “see rapids below”
    Now I know better.

    Lets get this strait. Are you saying the treasure is not out there for someone to find . I sure hope so.That leaves less competition for the rest of us You don’t believe FF’s integrity when he said it is there to find Maybe someone already found it.


  41. Bob:
    I posted what I think is the first of the nine clues. Here is what I think is the second clue and why.
    WWWH- Yellowstone national park
    But not the physical park in the northwest corner of Wyoming. The Yellowstone you need to visit to find the blaze is the one in Cody,WY at the Draper museum of natural history.
    The Draper is billed as “the Yellowstone experience”
    At the entrance, overhead in big letters is “YELLOWSTONE”
    In my opinion, when Forrest said that two searchers have emailed him with the first two clues correct and went right past the other seven they are Chase chat Stephanie and her husband after their visit to Cody.
    Now recently Forrest has changed that statement to “several searchers”. Not just two.
    Because Connie (Zelda) and I toured the Draper and emailed him.

    The difference is Connie and I found the blaze, Stephanie did not.

    Did you look directly down and see the treasure maybe it’s under the floor.


    • Woody- no, I did not look down.
      “look quickly down” is not the physical act of directing ones gaze at a speed greater than normal. Lol

      This phrase is the first puzzle I tackled in solving the poem.
      I used to think the tresure was really out there to be found, now I think not.
      My first solution to “look quickly down was that it was double entendre for “see rapids below”
      In 3 searches to Wyoming and Montana this is what I was looking for- a trail marker that said “see rapids below”
      Now I know better.


  42. I posted what I think is the first of the nine clues. Here is what I think is the second clue and why.
    WWWH- Yellowstone national park
    But not the physical park in the northwest corner of Wyoming. The Yellowstone you need to visit to find the blaze is the one in Cody,WY at the Draper museum of natural history.
    The Draper is billed as “the Yellowstone experience”
    At the entrance, overhead in big letters is “YELLOWSTONE”
    In my opinion, when Forrest said that two searchers have emailed him with the first two clues correct and went right past the other seven they are Chase chat Stephanie and her husband after their visit to Cody.
    Now recently Forrest has changed that statement to “several searchers”. Not just two.
    Because Connie (Zelda) and I toured the Draper and emailed him.

    The difference is Connie and I found the blaze, Stephanie did not.


    • I have felt that Stanza 1 is just saying he is the only one with knowledge of where he hid the chest and he will give hints about it. I dont know what the in there …… is?


    • to those that think FF ‘s blaze is at the Draper One if FF traveled to Cody Wyoming it would take a measurable amount of time especially twice and the fact that his close family had no knowledge he had hidden the chest and the time to travel to Wyoming would surely have aroused suspicion and him being absent would surely be noticed Therefor the common analyses is that is not the case. Each to your own solve I suppose.


      • Good analysis, Woody. I agree. I think Wyoming and Montana are unlikely for that reason, although still possible. But Colorado or New Mexico see seem to be much more likely to me.


        • access to areas by influential people with black limo’s into places in YELLOWSTONE park where no one else has those privileges seems to me would put a big damper on the decision to put a treasure chest there along with the federal rules that apply also. I just don’t think FF would do that I could be wrong though.


      • Woody-read all my recent posts, you and Jack are right. The treasure is not in Yellowstone nor Wyoming nor Montana. I’ve been saying the blaze is at the Draper. According to the poem once the blaze is identified and located the search is over.
        “If you’ve been wise and found the blaze, look quickly down, your quest to cease.”

        “look quickly down” is a descriptor for the blaze- a GPR unit.
        This is what you are looking for, not the treasure.
        Once you find the GPR unit your search is over.
        Whenever Forrest uses the word “it’s” he talking about the blaze, not the treasure. IMO!


        • IMHO – I don’t think the search is over once you find the blaze.

          These 2 lines (once again IMHO)

          Your quest TO cease
          tarry scant with marvel gaze

          Mean the same thing.

          Your quest for the TC hasn’t ceased yet – but is about TO cease. Close very close.

          Tarry scant with marvel gaze – IMHO if it is not the marvelous scenery it is also referencing the blaze – reinforcing the fact that you found the blaze.

          But tarry scant. Don’t “focus” your search for the TC here. Move on to find the TC. Once again close, very close.

          So both are clues (but only equal 1 clue).

          I think of it as a circle with 2 objects in it. Omegas?


        • You all have interesting ideas. In my opinion Forrest would never put the name of where he hid the treasure in the book. He said the clues are subtle, that he wouldnt put an x on the map for us.
          The one thing is certain we all will never agree on much of anything concerning the chase. Thats ok, it may take a virtual village to solve this….


      • Woody don’t forget Forrest is a trustee of the Cody museum and he has a lot of his artifacts displayed there. So there’s reason to go there without suspicion.


    • Interesting post Bob. My initial search was in Cody along with a follow up search. Cody had a strong hold on me for a very long time. I have now moved on which could very well be a mistake on my part.


    • I wouldnt put too much emphasis in that statement. Forrest recieves alot of email about the chase. At the same time that happened, Dal had been in NM. He was filmed by the local nbc affiliate and it was aired. He was accompanied by Gadi Schwartz.
      There you go two searchers on video for Forrest to see the exact area,do you see how it could fit any number of scenarios?


  43. Not sure if this has been discussed.

    As I have gone alone in there

    It seems to me the word “Since” would fit this line better than “As”. Mr. Fenn said that an architect wrote this poem. Any ideas why “As” would be a better fit than “Since”?

    Doesn’t “As” imply comparing two things? It could be the two trips he took, but the last two lines seem to justify the first two, so wouldn’t justification require “Since”?

    If an architect needed to use As instead of Since, what is he trying to convey to us that wouldn’t work with using Since?

    This seems trivial but an architect doesn’t design anything without a good reason. What could be Mr. Fenn’s for using As?



    • When FF normally starts telling a story – he usually starts by speaking in the present tense. If he started it with since – it would be speaking in the past tense…..

      Also the place is somewhere you would not normally go alone.

      As far as the two trips – those would be 2 trips from the parked car.


    • My thought is that he actually made the trip more than once to plan it. I believe at one time he had a partner and that partner died. Thats why he says, 2 men can keep a secret if one of them is dead. If the partner died he uses as because since reminds him he is now alone in this game.

      Of course thats just an opinion! 🙂


    • Jdh- for my solution to this poem puzzle (poezzle) the use of the word as or replacing it with since makes no difference. The clue referenced in stanza one to me is asking, Where has he gone in with treasures?

      In a cave?
      In a bear den?
      In a hollow tree?
      In a national park?
      In a rail car?
      In a museum?

      I favor the museum, and heres how I disconnect it from a structure.

      Remember the old game show the 10,000 dollar pyramid?
      It was a word association game, clues were given based on their association to an object.
      Let’s play: the square lit up on the pyramid says- “things associated with a structure”
      Possible clues: roof, walls, doors, windows, concrete slab, garage door, chimney, shutters, paint, shingles,nails… And on and on it goes.
      Treasure chest would never be a clue.

      Forrest Fenn went alone and with his treasures bold into the Buffalo Bill Center of the West and donated gold dust and a moose poke to the Draper museum of Natural History. They can be viewed in a glass case at the 10,000 foot level.
      IN MY Opinion… This is the first of the nine clues.


  44. .
    And hint of riches new and old

    “Something old, something new” is also a prescription for good luck.

    As in clothes for a wedding, e.g.,

    a dress



    • in the pattern of Stanza 234 then 561

      these lines follow each other

      I give you title to the gold. As i have gone alone in there

      if title being an allusion to

      The Thrill of the Chase A Memoir

      i have gone alone ….. gone lone A

      make the lone “A” gone, remove the A from the title


      • .

        By the time one arrives at this part of the poem, the meaning of “title” should be apparent, e.g., ( not the real thing ) one would be at the intersection of

        “Name” and “Mane” streets



    • Astree

      i like that interpretation

      perhaps going alone meant flying in the air to there, or just flying over it when he saw it

      and alone being when he first saw it in the air, or if he means going there by air travel. and it was without the treasure

      then when he went not alone, with the treasures bold, it was not by air, it was by car


      • That’s one of the first readings I ever had of the first two lines of stanza 1, but also understanding treasure(s) as the chest but also loved one(s).

        The A thing I see much differently.

        And I also interpret the first stanza as stanza 2. I’ve written something on that but it may be rather long to post.



  45. dlkutac:
    I do not advocate killing bees for any reason.There are alternatives to relocating swarms that crop up in undesirable locations.(I’m a beekeeper.)

    Thats really great! My grandmother was a beekeeper too. She kind of had to be though with a 40 acre orchard. When I think back on all the things she did I am in awe. Good memories. 🙂


    • Unless you accidently squish one, the bees are very docile. When we first started the hobby, we didn’t even wear gloves. That changed when one of our hives became hotter than the rest.

      (pic of my hubby holding a frame from our first hive, five years ago)


  46. The letter groupings of


    is suggestive of a positional code. Here is one example, using SECRET as the base, and adding “TEA”


  47. .
    Continuing the conversation, re: ” I can keep my secret w here”

    I can keep my secret double-u here”

    See double colophon, end of book.



      • Regarding “I can keep my secret w here”, that reading always reminds me of It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, where the treasure was buried under a big W. And if they make a reality show about the chase I would expect that the cast of characters may be running around just like those people.

        Could the w be the double omegas (which also appear in tftw)? Conceivably. The double omegas are the finishing touch in the book, which tells me something else.

        As for “secret weapon here”, I don’t favor the word weapon being used in the poem. Forrest has been very convincing in how his views on what people do with weapons have changed, ie Vietnam and his regrets for the cat he killed as told in chapter “i wish i hadn’t” in tftw.

        In a previous post I have suggested a reading of “I can keep my secret where warm waters halt”, which certainly evokes the thought in the T.S. Elliot poem about the connection between the beginning and the end. The word “where” is obviously big in stanzas 1 and 2, and the entire poem for that matter.

        Everything is ultimately about the where.



      • .

        “secret weapon” viz a secret way of doing something. No violence implied or intended.

        ” Everything is ultimately about the where.”

        Agreed in entirety.


  48. astree:

    Forrest has got me quite baffled on “the end of the poem”. Have been expending quite a bit of energy over the last month on it, feels like going in circles. V ..e..r..t..i..g..ooooooo.

    The end of the poem, eh?

    So, isn’t it odd to see the following two lines paired?

    Just take the chest and go in peace.
    So why is it that I must go?

    Huh? There are gaps between each stanza of the poem, but if you try removing them, especially in this location, it certainly reads like an odd turn of tense.

    Take the chest and you go, and then: why must I go? So he instructs you to take the chest which he has hidden, and then he’s asking you (the only question in the poem, no less) why must he go and leave his trove? Isn’t this putting the cart before the horse, the finish before the start?

    The 5th stanza has always been the runt of the litter. It doesn’t give up answers as readily as some of the others. So why is that so? And why does it read like a preface, a proclamation from his soap box of what he intends to do, not a wrap-up after the finder has gone in peace with the chest? Do you think that it’s one of those tricks that screenwriters love to pull in the movies?

    Maybe this is the cause of your vertigo.



    • .
      Right on, Halogetter.

      And perhaps “And hint of caches new and old” would work well, too.

      Can we think, then, that this game is a grown-up version of

      “Teacher, teacher I declare
      I see someone’s under where”




  49. Forrest has got me quite baffled on the end of the poem.Have been expending quite a bit of energy over the last month on it, feels like going in circles. V ..e..r..t..i..g..ooooooo.

    I have an antivert if it would help?


  50. I re-read the entire stanza 1 thread, including these recent posts by astree and azure below, and thought I would post this for consideration:

    Read the last two lines of Stanza 1 (which really isn’t the first stanza, but that’s another story) like this:

    I can keep my secret where warm waters halt,
    And hint of new riches and old riches.

    (did you smile after reading secret where warm?)

    Let’s fuggeddabout all the “don’t change the poem” stuff for now. This is an interpretation of meaning.

    Here’s the summary:
    Forrest went alone in there with his treasures bold so he can keep his secret where warm waters halt, and now he can provide hints to you of new riches and old riches.

    He just told you in the last line of stanza 1 that he’s going to hint about the riches. So, as you continue to read the poem (his chosen method for revealing information) we look for signs of him doing just that- hinting of new riches and old riches.

    If we consider for the sake of argument that new riches are the monetary and historic valuables that Forrest has placed (some of which are very old but the treasure chest is a new occupant in the landscape and is new riches), and that the old(er) riches are the attributes of the hiding place that is special, dear and private, then the hints (clues) can be recognized as providing “all the information you need to find the treasure” location, thus:

    Where new riches and old riches come together.

    So, me hearties, what precisely is Forrest telling you in stanzas 2 thru 6 about the new riches and old riches?



    • .
      “(did you smile after reading secret where warm?)”

      Yes, for quite a while.

      Nice commentary and flow of reasoning.

      ” So, me hearties, what precisely is Forrest telling you in stanzas 2 thru 6 about the new riches and old riches? ”

      How to find them … but I spect you had something more definite in mind.




    • .
      Hi azuredeb,

      Sorry if it was confusing. I wasn’t addressing any previous post, just the stanza.

      But would add that gold has been considered a treasure for thousands of years, and likewise used as a metaphor during those times. Were you thinking of a specific application of gold ?

      I have some guesses as to and what Forrest may be referring to in physical terms, but nothing definite yet.

      Good Luck, thanks for your comments,


    • Hi astree,
      found an eon for you,
      st. andrews golf
      caps 1st source
      straight box a- z
      grape t key

      EO N

      working on transposition

      decrypt row,
      P. GS OF SE GA = GS OF SE GA P.
      = Period PAGES F

      TGC & CS


        • Thanxs astree,

          a little Sir Charles W, Playfair
          row, column, spiral, standard a-z
          nickels 5 x 5
          convert #’s to letters
          added Cola to pepsi

          4 6 1 5 2 7 8 3
          G R A P E T T E
          R N E U E N M R
          T A O N P D F D
          M T N E S H – –

          columnar transposition

          H SENT MT R N EUEN MR DA POND (ONPD /anagram) F

          MT montana
          reverse start bottom spiral

          need a drink,

          xcellant tune was just thinking and talking about that video
          if you want more hints just say

          TGC & CS


        • .
          Indeed, thanks much for that as well. And I may take you up on your offer in the future.

          As to say, given the mention of the “pipewrench” above, and reading up the center of the example in the below-listed link, we have VODE,

          There are several ways to get to that, but only one way to get to the right one of that, with the puzzle.

          Good Luck,


          • Thanks astree,

            enjoyed the links!

            Figured that, might be simple system that applied to 12 soda caps with an answer (not main part poem) on page 1 27. Described as plentiful, free, EASY 2 find did get “eon” that way (looking for small message). Fun part in entering a keyword resulted in Grapet… Grape T… color cap & T, nickels 5 x 5. Interesting sentence contained 11/12 caps along with other adjectives. Fizzed CO2 pairs. Rule 1..4 locations plus, has 4 rules in the 1st Baron of St. Andrews Golf Club, appreciated additional info on wrap around and interchangable x q.


            TGC & CS


    • Right Deb –

      Just amazing how people can not wrap their head around something so simple.

      Old treasures = Old OLd OLD – past – not found – gonner – opposite of new.

      New treasures – the one FF secreted – opposite of old. Almost 3 yrs new.

      2 separate things and the only thing they have in common is GOLD and have not been found.


    • The 1st line, sounds as if he is talking about a cave to any child or young person, and most adults if you give them that line and pause and ask them what they think of that. Then comes well it could be in a Park. Some thought it was an outhouse and then a graveyard. But recently he said the place was special, dear and private. He said to tell if it was on gov’t land or not would too big of a clue… but to say the place is special, dear and PRIVATE… ??


      • What do any of you make of that? ff said something about 1st get the WWWsH, but its caused us to ignore that 1st line. Is that what we should do, Ignore that line? Now, if it was just on some trail somewhere but met all the clues, would we say its “in there” ?


          • I have been chilling out in North Georgia mountains, My 28 yr old son has moved to Denver. He sings and cooks I will email you his data,


        • In my opinon, nobody should ignore any part of the poem. Forrest is tricky, he may have read the poem the way he did on tv to throw people off track.

          Dont ignore any of the stanzas because the whole poem is part of the solve.


          • and hint of treasures new and old, there are old things in the chest and newer things, coins, but this could relate to a clue from other Treasures hid and lost within the search area, doesn’t mean it has to be at this location, but somethings about another treasure could apply in some way to this chase. This is not a new idea, as the shadow points out..


  51. inthechaseto: That could be Deb – but I doubt it.I don’t think he runs around taking coordinates of places he’s been.

    Why then would he make a statment like this:

    “Indecision is the key to flexibility and that’s why I waited so long to secret my cache.

    I Think sometime FF says something just ’cause it sounds clever or cute, and we are looking into Its meaning way too DEEP. He wanted to hide the chest, but wasn’t sure that he should, should I or should I not, I want too ,but should I, what will my fmaily think… then time was passing by and he had to act or get off the pot, he hid it. The real question is like the 85% or alway tell the truth but not all the truth, did HE CONCEED and put it else where, some place easier to get to and that would take less time, or did he put it where there was never a doubt where he wanted to put it.
    Remember this , it put where ther was never a doubt, THAT THIS place was picked in 1986 when he first had cancer, not inthe 90’s or after but in 1986 !! SO forget special places his last 25 years AS TOO WHERE HE PICKED to hide the chest


  52. inthechaseto:

    Why then would he make a statment like this:

    “Indecision is the key to flexibility and that’s why I waited so long to secret my cache.

    Page 13 – “making plans is antagonistic to FREEDOM”

    Page 131 – “indecision is the key to FLEXIBILITY and thats why i waited so LONG to secret my cache”

    note that page 131 is where he says it was TIME to ACT and Page 13 is where the only book he mentions that happens to be a PLAY (act), KISMET

    delay making plans = freedom from plans = flexibilty

    The word Latitude has a meaning, freedom, like space to move, room to be flexible, give me some latitude here

    freedom/flexibilty – Latitude

    long/waiting long – longitude

    the history of longitude is related to TIME if you ever read about it

    notice the similarity in the 2 page #’s , 13 and 131, and if you add them, you will get, imo the degrees of lat/long — 144 total …. 37 and 107

    i am going to be making another post on the significance of 13


  53. azuredeb:
    Actually he always knew where he would hide it,so Im pretty sure he knew the coordinates before he wrote the poem. Remember he is a surveyor, so that would be the way he works.

    He does talk about it in an interview, that he always knew where he would hide it. Its a long interview, an hour long from the bookstore.

    That could be Deb – but I doubt it. I don’t think he runs around taking coordinates of places he’s been.

    Why then would he make a statment like this:

    “Indecision is the key to flexibility and that’s why I waited so long to secret my cache.


    • One other thing – if you want to put numbers together just to fit your spot or out-of-order – maybe and just perhaps – you are barking up the wrong tree.

      I am taking about finding numbers that are succinct all there and in order precisely.

      I don’t know why I should care what anyone does here – but I do.


  54. Horatio: Wordplay: gone alone- stagNumbers: g(one) al(one) 11That’s all I got.


    I saw a “one” scattered through the poem. As well, if you take the “ace” ( go in “pe ace”, you could add to this –

    ( )

    I am not using this as part of the solve, just thought it was interesting.



        • No way darlin –

          But, you could ust think about this

          1. He wrote the poem
          2. He hid the treasure
          3. He finalized the book

          He didn’t have the coordinates when he wrote the poem – but if you want to play with it – have at it.


          • 9 Clues
            6 Stanzas
            4 Lines per Stanza
            24 Lines
            166 words
            2 far (four) 2 (walk)
            home of Brown (html color code for Brown is #A52A2A

            X amount of Syllables

            *the list goes on and on.

            The only number with the book is 35 as in $35.

            In my opinion ofcourse 😉


          • OK VG –

            So you made those numbers fit your spot I suppose. Anyone could make them fit any spot. I just don’t think that is how he did it – he was much more inventive. It relates to a clue. And it involes the poker game. IMO


          • inthechaseto you know me I’m only fooling….having fun. Ofcourse there are also numbers in the BOOK….loads of them! But very overwhelming…so much to process. The Poem, Book, Videos, and Blogs…brain overload……and here comes a NEW BOOK “Too Far to Walk” (2 4 2 Walk)…..where are we suppose to begin again? I already forgot.


          • Hint= “H in “t” of riches new and old or land riches owned. = Tree. “h” in “t” of tree = three. H = 3.


          • Actually he always knew where he would hide it, so Im pretty sure he knew the coordinates before he wrote the poem. Remember he is a surveyor, so that would be the way he works.

            He does talk about it in an interview, that he always knew where he would hide it. Its a long interview, an hour long from the bookstore.


  55. The poem has nine sentences. FF says the poem has nine clues. He has deliberately crafted the poem in such a way that most people are ignoring this first stanza, not considering it a clue. Is this wise?

    He wanted us to figure out the whole poem, not bits and pieces of it. I wouldnt be suprised if the hidden meaning in this stanza is important to the chase.
    What do you all think?


    • azuredeb
      I think that most of us have a particular style of creating solves; at times I experiment with different styles and may throw out a thought into our community to get feedback. I basically look at poem in a conceptual manner, for example: done it tired and weak, to me means drained. I originally looked at first stanza to mean utilize his diary (ttotc) for hints to solve poem. I now am looking at it differently.
      Whenever I find myself getting too far out I go back to basics and utilize the things that most of us agree are facts. I think it is important that one has some structure upon which to measure potential validity of


    • I agree! I think the first stanza may point to the “X” spot, and the remaining 5 stanzas tell how to get there.

      Although the entire stanza appears on the surface to be a straight forward introduction to the chase, the last line is the most troubling to me… not that I have the other lines figured out yet. I don’t.

      I think we assume “hint of riches new and old” refers to the treasure and/or other artifacts at the chest site, but the poem doesn’t really hint of these types of riches. It hints of where to go to find the treasure and I don’t think its the same thing.

      What is the poem really hinting about?

      Could the “riches” be the beauty of nature, the adventure, the “thrill” or the experience of the chase? These were part of Mr. Fenn’s incentive for doing this. These are the true values of our participation. This is what Mr. Fenn wants us to experience. The location is “special” and “dear” to him. Could that be what gives it it’s richness?

      But how does this translate to the “X” spot or any other helpful solution?

      I think also that some people are ignoring the first stanza because Mr. Fenn has said to begin where warm waters halt in an interview. But to me that’s where you begin your physical search, not where you begin to solve the poem’s clues. I think the first stanza provides the first clue as to the location.



      • If I have it right…. He dosent say nine clues equal nine sentences. He says there are nine clues in the poem that if followed in order, precisely, will allow one to move with confidence to TC. We know he is a trickster, the Coyote.
        Thus…. All nine
        ” clues” may be in one stanza, or two or more; I continue to look for patterns. It is my thought that even the most creative minds of humans will still have a pattern, even if it is “chaos”.


      • I think this is the hardest stanza to chifer.

        I agree with Deb – there are nine sentences. Everyone is a clue? Maybe. Some go together and some do not.

        I often thought he originally wrote the poem starting with “Begin it where” and then changed it to start with this stanza – then he could say start at the beginning and we would not know if it’s the word – “Begin” or this stanze. Cute hu? Actually I think the beginning is written before the poem on his web site. And so it seems he has a theme of moving things backwards. (Trying to think how he actually did this when he wrote it ). So, if you start solving at the end and moving backwards – it will help I think. If you try to anagram just the words “I can keep my secret where” = it will drive you crazy. I need to go to the couch, again. Usually when you anagram so few words like this, a few things pop up – but this is exceptionally crazy because it has so many words that fit.

        Hint of riches new and old – could be the treasure he hid, and old lost treasures never found. it could be the name of something, It could relate to a wedding etc. it could be all of those. I find the relationship to the number three significant. 3 is an aviation rule.

        I’ve never heard him say start at WWWH – maybe he did – what I heard him say was “start at the beginning.”


        • Inthechaseto,
          My apologies. I’ve looked for the video but am unable to find it. However, in Dal’s blog, there are two comments about this, that are attributed to Mr. Fenn, however neither is a quote. One is under Rumors Abound:
          Begin with the first clue – Forrest has reminded us over and over to figure out first where “warm waters halt”. Without getting this first clue, he says, we cannot expect to understand the rest of the clues.

          The second is under Tips From Forrest:

          He has told us over and over that the smart place to start is where warm waters halt. Starting in the middle of the poem, for instance at the home of Brown, is not a good strategy.

          Although both comments indicate “warm waters” is the first clue, the video I remember indicated to start there, but did not state it was the first clue. I took that to mean there is a clue in stanza one.

          Now after reading the comments again, I don’t know what to think. And I thank you for that. 😉 I’d rather be confused than think something that is wrong.



          • J –

            It is extremely easy to get confused here – who isn’t. That is why it is so very important to keep things straight. What is posted in a blog – is not always true – even Dals blog. Fact, FF has said start at the beginning – he never said start at WWWH. It’s really where do you want to start. Your gut will probably lead in the right direction. If one started from the home of brown – in my solve – he could still find the treasure. Fact, FF never said he couldn’t .I So, don’t belive you have to “go” to the beginning to find it. So now – how confused are you?


      • jdh:

        What is the poem really hinting about?

        Could the “riches” be the beauty of nature, the adventure, the “thrill” or the experience of the chase?

        . The location is “special” and “dear” to him.Could that be what gives it it’s richness?

        Nice post, Great question. And the poem looks to hold other phrases that deserve follow-up.

        Good Luck,


    • He’s telling us how we should proceed, this is critical. For example, let’s invent a clue that says “Start at the bookstore, head north, take the third left.”

      If you were walking, you’d come out the front door of the bookstore and count places you could turn left; first an alley, then a bistro, finally walk into the bank.

      If in a car, you’d count streets; drive past the bookstore, then count Pine St, Maple Ave, then take the freeway on ramp.

      If in a plane, you might have to be on the ground at the airport to know that “The Library” is the nickname for the pilot’s bar because of all the old aviation books lining the walls; then one, two, three hangars up is where you need to be.


      • Nice post tomwhat. Drinks on the house on me, vgboss, head on over to The Lounge.

        As I have gone alone in The Lounge
        And boldly with my Discover Credit Card,
        I will order what my heart desires,
        And hint of food, wine, beer and spirits.

        Begin it at


  56. inthechaseto:
    You just never know were this chase will take you.

    I typed in marble mountain photo and then fenn and up came a photo of marble Mt. in Vietnam followed it to the web site and here it is –

    download works fine and it’s FF talking about archeology and bombs.

    You know people have been throwing around comments about other chasers being “crazy”,inferring that others are using substances that affect their thinking. In general being so rude that those of us who have stumbled upon stuff Forrest wants us to learn about dont bother sharing because of the prevailing attitude. Big mistake making others feel this way because no body will share with people who behave this way.


  57. Bur:
    It’s not crazytown, but think what you like, it’s a very well known area. Guess I’ll see the negative in this but everyone is entitled to their thoughts. As by some of the emails I have gotten people indeed are willing to think more out of the box or have already.

    Bur I didnt say it was, I said it makes you feel like it is.We must have found totally different things . lol Its all good.


  58. Okay this might seem like a weird post on the nine clues, but I have had a chance to look at this poem in the traditional manner, or how it basically reads, through my eyes and a lot of yours too. I have also been introduced to a new way of thinking about it and I want to say for the most part everyone is way off the meaning. Some have challenge the poem in that off beaten track and in those cases they are in the step in the right direction. Forrest has put it in our minds that for the most part of the chasers we are searching the areas he wants us to search, knowing these 2 areas are not where he hid the T.C. So he is getting his fix as to say with seeing people out there searching finding nothing but truely have a good adventure anyway as I recently did, and that’s his goal. The treasure is just the icing on the cake for him if someone finds it, and that means they have figured out his way of thinking. So does the poem lead you to the treasure? Yes it does and it gives you specific directions to it’s local but not the way it reads, and yes you need to start with the first stanza and follow it in order, you can not jump around and there is not any assumptions to be had on any meanings it’s all facts. Okay before I get any questions on this post I know this seen vague but for me to even go a little more into detail it would explain just what I said and then there would be a mad rush by “everyone” to this spot. The T.C. will be where it’s at until the proper conclusion is figured out, and it has been, but for the one who has solved this poem time is on their side as they know this because no one has figured the third clue right yet and that is the kicker clue because the rest will fall in order after that. Forrest has said a couple people have solved the first two clues but they went right passed it, and that is true. So why say anything you might say, the reason is I would like to see more people thinking out of the box, totally different then what I’ve seen posted in all of the Thrill of the Chase blogs and see just where it might take them with this thought in mind. My eyes have been opened to the right way of reading the poem, let’s see who else is willing to open theirs. I have made a promise not to give any intel on this solution so please don’t ask and if you consider me a little loco then so be it, but all I have to say is the solver of this poem will be giving back Fenn’s bracelet most likely before winter comes again. I wish it was me but happy trails my friend. I will not write about my Search #2 because it is no help at all to anyone just a fun adventure for me and the wife as I now see. Good luck to all the chasers no matter where their clues might lead them, but for some of you who do believe in reading the poem totally out of the box I wish you the best adventure you’ll ever have, and that will be solving it. Bur


      • Inthechaseto if your a educated person you’ll figure the answers out, but the www. came help if your not. And yes there are a couple of hints in the book that let’s you know your at the right local too.


    • I think I know what you are talking about… but I’m curious… who did you make this promise to? “you prolly won’t say, but I have to ask”


        • No you arent going crazy, ff did this deliberately . Broaden our horizons, make us see more so to speak.Where it leads ? Only the phantom knows? lol


        • It’s not crazytown, but think what you like, it’s a very well known area. Guess I’ll see the negative in this but everyone is entitled to their thoughts. As by some of the emails I have gotten people indeed are willing to think more out of the box or have already.


    • Hey take want I said however you want, I just wanted to open up another avenue of thinking. I know many of you are set in your ways and believe you on the right track and that’s fine, go for it. But for those looking for something different I say go for that too. Open minds work the best. Okay everyone enjoy your searches, best of luck to you.


  59. “In there”, could simply just mean “in the mountains”… Keeping it simple, as ff has implied by saying “let your kids read the poem”. JMHO.


  60. I think the first stanza is a suggestion to use the book. A place where one goes alone and keeps secrets, is a diary, perhaps referring to his book. It is also thought that the book holds hints to clues to find treasure.


      • I think they have been hangin out in the lounge too long – and not the one here.

        BTW – It was only for a tiny moment that I thought I was crazy and then remembered there are those here that just wish to confuse because they are so stupid they can’t figure out “clue number one”. (I have to spell it out for them.)


  61. btw, the triangle in the book, the 3 marbles, the triangle on the frog face, etc….was the Pullman RR car I searched, the marvel sign I posted, and the UPS depot. If you look at them on a map they form a triangle. If you draw a circle around them as in the book where the boys are playing marbles, the old water tower is outside the circle right where the other boy has his hand on the treasure.


      • The warm water was the steam engines….they halt at the depot….this was where you begin it.


        • That is a great theory Steph,

          it sure would be nice to see where it was found by whomever and that it gets announced to see if our theories were correct then we can at least be content with,”Yep!, I knew it!” lol 🙂


          • Thanks, Kym….I’ll be waiting to see the news as well!


    • Good Morning Stephanie,
      Is there other triangle references? You typed “etc” above. I will start looking again, but if you remember any others could you point them out? Thanks a lot for all you ideas.


      • Lucky, I’m trying to think, it’s been awhile since I’ve looked at the book. I remember the marble pic, the frog pic on pg 133, and then there is another pic of what looks like a mini-bear inside the chest with a triangle face or nose, I can’t remember which.


    • Stephanie i’ve been on the gravy train since way back.
      . f once mentioned Angel in an email to me and in Hobo lingo means a person who gives more than you expect. HOB could very well be John Brown Division- B&O RR which happens to be a square on the Monopoly board f loves to play.
      The nickle statement in the book could be a hint to the Hobo Nickle Society. There’s many many more if the train theory sparks your interest.


      • Luckydog and JJ,

        both of you may need to email Stephanie because yesterday she said she is quitting. Go read the “News” section and about halfway down the page you can find her email addy.


        • If your speaking about Stephanie Davis i believe she stated she wasn’t searching anymore but was still keeping up on the chat side of things. I probably shouldn’t have addressed her directly in my last post, it was for anyone interested.


      • wow, JJ, I checked out all the hobo signs but hadn’t made the monopoly connection….good find.


  62. The riches “new” is the chest and our memories that we create while searching. The riches “old” are FF’s warm memories in Yellowstone…where warm water halts. FF has spent 20+ vacations in YNP and has tons of memories there- a huge emotional connection. He says “think big”- that is YNP. You can’t get much bigger than that. We can find all the places that match up to the poem- the canyons, rivers and hot springs in New Mexico, Colorado, or Utah; but only one place, YNP, has the emotional connection which is the key to solving this. CHC


  63. Stanza 1 sounds like he is describing a place where there are usually no witnesses present to watch him enter, or where there are witnesses present, but it is customary for him to carry “treasures” in there, like a museum or gallery perhaps?


      • tomwhat I don’t mean to be annoying, well then again I do…..but seriously it rubs me the wrong way when people say it’s not associated with any structure and it even ticked me off more when Forrest Fenn said it.

        Hear me and listen good. The Poem does not say whether it is or it isn’t associated with any structure. Second…the photo that Forrest Fenn provided us all at the beginning of it all is with the Chest resting on a wooden table which is a structure.

        I just can’t imagine the Treasure Chest floating in mid-air….like a balloon. Just can’t…not unless it’s wrapped in rope and dangling someplace…in mid-air….but then would the rope not be a structure?



  64. And hint of riches new and old.

    I believe he is talking of “old” treasures that have never been found.

    Is there a history of lost treasure where you are looking?


  65. Ok, I give up…..I think the butler hid it, in the watershed, with a rope.


  66. Ok, I can’t get off the gravy train. I just found this article that says they redid the old pump house and that they originally dug a well…..wonder if it’s still there??? Also, there is an underground line that still runs up to the old horse trough outside the old depot…..if I were still in West Yellowstone, this is where I would look.


      • The above pic of the natural well would fit with the meadowlark and it’s abilities to “gape” or peer into a hole.


        • Kym….this is just a pic of what I think the area the treasure is hid in will look like….I don’t know where this spring fed well is but it’s just a random pic I found and it matched what I have been looking for. Begin it where warm waters halt (at the pump) take it in the CAN(watering can, lunch bucket, pail, or whatever) yon down. Not too far, but too far to walk….this spring was 2 miles away and they had to run a line to pump it in. Put in below the home of brown (this well was put in below the Union Pacific System, the UPS) From there it’s no place for the meek (probably so), the end is ever drawing nigh (the well) No paddle just heavy loads and waters high (draw up the heavy chest)….and I’m quite sure it’s all “in the wood”.


          • ohh that does look like something, I would picture it with a rock slab over it that you have to slide back to look or some rock formation


          • Yes, kym, a slab that I’ve been talking about for quite awhile now… the slab on pg 133!!! 🙂 Thank you, that’s exactly what I was thinking 🙂 This has been my theory, I just couldn’t quite put it all together until now. Having said that, I have no idea if it’s right but it does look promising.


      • I believe this old well is still there outside W. Yellowstone. It has to be since they dug it, I bet its just covered up….with a SLAB!


        • that would be awesome, hope when whoever finds it it is like that! 🙂 you mentioned the gaping thing… I pictured a shallow hole surrounded by flowers with rocks over it and the chest laid in there, so I believe we are getting close 🙂


        • VG, I think it is covered by a thin sandstone slab as FF mentions in the book….one that can be easily pushed aside but i believe it will be hard to spot because it will be flat or flush to the ground.


          • it’s an old well….they would have covered it when it went out of use….I think….and also did you know that scant means slab?


          • VG, Yes!!! something just like that 🙂 Just my theory though, but I have some other reasons for thinking it besides what I’ve put on here… anyone going out in that area should at least take a go at it. Just remember who told you where it was 😉


          • also, VG, they were piping in the water from a natural spring 2 miles away and that was too far, hence the reason they decided to dig the well closer… much closer? I don’t know….but I bet it’s within 500 ft of that pump or old depot.


          • Yes remember Stephanie Davis and the person who helped enhance Stephanie’s work and one of her hot spots.


        • and look at the natural rocks….stacked up like olives in a jar….as if someone did it on purpose…or something like that in the book.


          • clever, VG, I just noticed the “blaze”. lol


          • Would have not been clever if you hadn’t posted that photo to begin with….teamwork. We got to place some type of blaze in the area. I know there are many other forms of blazes but the F is so easy and immediate to place. Glad you enjoyed and brought a small smile…giggle…a Thrill to you.


          • 🙂 I do like to laugh! Thanks for that.


          • ok, so back to business….I think FF owned that old RR car I searched. The lady said it used to be somebody’s summer home out there and that the original “slab” is still out there at the edge of town….EDGE of town, right about where the well would probably be. FF said he hid the chest in a place he has known for YEARS. I like this spot! The RR car was given to the restaurant…..someone on here mentioned an anagram that said “donated to brown”….my HOB is the RR and if FF donated this to the Oregon Short line restaurant then there is your anagram come true.


        • Oh and one other thing about that RR car, it was donated with the stipulation that it be “free” for all to enjoy and no “do not touch” signs anywhere. It is managed by a company called Delaware North. Delaware North owns some more property out there in West YS….don’t know if FF has some vested interest in this company or not, but it wouldn’t surprise me.


    • I believe if you follow the old pipe wouldn’t it lead you right to the well??? Go with confidence?


    • I think this could also be why FF said the HOB was so important. You can know WWWH if you don’t know the HOB.


      • I agree with you Stephanie Davis…in that you can solve, be at, “where warm waters halt” but still not have “home of Brown solved’ 500ft away from the Treasure Chest? Hmmmmm


        • that well could be anywhere in between that old pump house and the spring 2 miles out.


    • JJ, I truly have no idea, but I do like Ashton Idaho for several reasons. The train connection of course, Skippy disappeared for about 30 minutes….Ashton is about 30 minutes from West Yellowstone and it has an area that runs up to the wyoming border and it has a zero population growth. There are several other reasons why I like this area but not ready to say them just yet.


      • Not to be nit-picky, but Skippy “disappeared into Idaho for a couple of days”, not thirty minutes (page 53). The 30 minutes was the time from when he called them unitl he flew over Hebgen lake, so it would have been 30 minutes in a plane as the crow flies.


        • well, no that’s not nit picky. I think that’s important. It’s been awhile since I read the book. I just know I had 30 minutes in my head.


      • I Should have been more specific i wasn’t asking if the chest was in Idaho, i was asking if your previous search area was in Idaho…..sorry.


    • Argus33 I personally think that is ok but thousands out there, solving this “thing” from home are in need, or support, as well to put their solution or solutions to the test.

      I don’t know what Mike will think though. You’re afterall off topic and before you know it thousands more people will be asking for some form of sponsorship for their treks.


      • Yeah, that makes sense. …and here we thought it was such a great idea to put it on here. Of course I’ll remove it if he says to… (It would be nice if SOMEone donated anything before that happens though)


  67. Eric Sloane died in New York and is buried in Connecticut, his wife died in Santa Fe but not until 2011 (after the book was published). I don’t think it has to do with either of their graves.


      • The Warm Waters Halt line does give me pause to think there might be something to it, blood thicker than water and all that, but I’m not all in on this line.


  68. Fellow Chasers let’s get some ideas/solutions/opinions going about this particular stanza.

    Where did Forrest Fenn go in alone? A Cave? A Pond surrounded by trees or bushes? Did he go into his mind, you know thoughts, heart, soul searching? Where did he go into alone?

    With his treasures bold? What treasures? His actual Chest and contents within the Chest? Once again…his thoughts? His secret? Some big secret? His love, within his heart, for something of great importance? What treasure bold?

    And hint of riches new and old? Could this be the variety of contents within the actual Chest? What about the place where he secret the Treasure Chest for could it be a place where there are old things from the past but new construction has gone up?

    Or could it be as simple as this:
    And (h)(i)(n)t of (r)(i)(c)(h)e(s) new and old.

    HINRICHS is Eric Sloane’s birth last name who was Forrest Fenn’s best friend. Read name was Everard Jean Hinrichs.

    Now if you go and re-read stanza 3 within the Poem you will find this line:
    The end is (e)(v)(e)(r) (d)(r)(a)wing nigh;

    Reverse the DRA in drawing and you have EVERARD


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