Poem 2:1

Begin it where warm waters halt

166 thoughts on “Poem 2:1

  1. So if hot water halts at 212f before it evaporates and cold water halts at 32f then it freezes wouldn’t warm water halt at 122f, that still seems a bit hot to me.


  2. Why 32? Is it important in understanding WWWH? The following discloses my opinion on finding WWWH and applying the “Golden” ratio 3:2 to solving portions of the poem. It’s my belief that Forrest is a genius and used a comprehensive yet simple approach to the poem. I hope searchers can benefit from my research and information. This is a METHOD which you can apply to any state you search.
    My material is copyrighted, attributable to me as I hope to include it in a future book.
    If quoting my research on other blogs or in any written form, please note appropriately.
    Copyright.2014.Valerie Westfall/42

    It’s All About The F

    Cyrillic letter EF or “F” = the GOLDEN RATIO 3:2 in math, science, art, music, architecture, aviation, nature’s design. F=3:2 the Golden ratio. It’s also freezing point.
    E=4, F=5 45 is the correct latitudinal axis. Note numerous ttotc refs to 4, 5.

    Phi, EF or “F” = The Golden Ratio represented by symbols:
    ? ?/? : Greek (see ttotc text for bb, pp, oo, dd which back to back form the symbol for golden ratio.)
    ? ? : Cyrillic
    F f : Latin
    Also letters b, d, p, x, y (in other languages)

    1. WWWH = 32
    Most importantly Forrest stated emphatically, “Everything you need is in the poem.”
    At the most basic level applicable to the poem, warm waters halt at the word halt. Numerically, L solves to 3 and T solves to 2. Therefore, halt ends with LT or 32. Forrest tells us in the word halt that he is using 32 as wwwh. That’s why it doesn’t rhyme. (numerical values have been discussed at length; see previous sb’s.)

    2. 32 degrees F = freezing. Every school kid will tell you warm waters halt when they freeze at 32 degrees f. Forrest said, ask a kid. See TTOTC ‘Frosty’ chapter references.

    3. Section 32: Forrest was a surveyor, he thought of every way possible to confirm location=poem. On Forest Service and Surveyors maps, as well as County Cadastral mapping, each Township is subdivided into 36 sections. Look for sections numbered 32. If there is a suitable location where all warm waters halt, in a basin, with a canyon down in close proximity on Section 32 why wouldn’t you first consider it?

    Application: warm water’s halt in basin land forms. Example: my wwwh is in a land basin at a geographical location where all warm springs indigenous to SW Montana completely halt for miles surrounding. I found several section 32’s in the area and chose the one nearest glacial activity and a canyon down.

    3. The poem’s 6 stanzas 4 lines may be folded or divided by 1/2 to achieve 3:2 mirrored symmetry and is written with 3 fifths of the information stacked on top of 2 fifths – roughly in a cross shape.

    4. 32 point Compass Rose – hinted at in almost every chapter in TTOTC with Pie, circle, quarter circle, half references and numerically by 4, 8,16, 32. The Large Bold Cap’s which begin each chapter further confirm your location using NSEW, Tramontana, Ostro, Libeccio, etc from Mariner’s compass Rose. (Rose, sea are in the poem).

    5. “Listen good” In music theory a perfect circle of fifths has a frequency ratio of 3:2 noted by Whole notes and Half notes shown as: WWWH.
    – Recognizing a perfect 5th, one listens for the pitch and root note = “in the wood”
    – Diatonic scales matching the perfect 3:2 ratio include “Dorian” and “Phrygian” which are also architectural styles.
    Phrygian 3:2 dominant is know as the “Spanish Gypsy” scale.

    6. Spiritually, the perfect circle of 5ths or 3:2 can be found in Native American medicine circles, and in the “beat of their drum.”

    7. Mathmatically, the golden ratio 3:2 and the inverse golden ratio 2:3 have a set of symmetries that interrelate them. When shown digitally 3:2 = 1.168. Every line in the poem solves to an equality of 1, 6, or 8. Coincidence? I don’t think so.

    8. Forrest built the poem architecturally. In architecture perfect symmetry is achieved using 3:2 golden ratio whether in Egyptian pyramids, Greek temples, teepees, or churches. Artists and Architects have proportioned their works to the golden ratio, believing this proportion to be aesthetically pleasing.

    9. Geometrically, A rhombus, diamond, or kite shape displays the golden ratio. A perfect diamond shape can be plotted within the poem connecting Y’s. Kite shapes are also present in the poem, as well as layered triangles which resemble spear points.

    10. The golden ratio appears in patterns in nature including the spiral arrangement of leaves, Fibonacci spiral/nautilus shell, and Honey bees construct hexagonal cells to hold their honey. Count the B’s in the poem. Forrest included an entire Bee culture within the poem.

    11. In Literature, Ancient Phrygia in the Anatolia region of Greece is famous for the heroic age of Greek mythology including the 3:2 ratio Gordian knot and king Midas “Midas touch” which turned everything he touched to gold.
    2nd Century Christians who originated from Phrygia became Catharses, then Knights Templar and finally Masons. I believe Forrest personally achieved Masonic level 32. An amazing achievement. After level 32 a Mason must be selected to serve as 33.

    12. TTOTC text has numerous double PP’s.
    Numerically, P=16, therefore PP=32. small detail, but further confirmation.


  3. Oh no no no, I earned the moderation by a careless remark I made without thinking about the possibility that I may have insulted Dal a long time ago.

    I am sorry but I shot my big mouth off about idiots who try to race hither and yon trying to beat each other to the treasure. I said maybe they should spend some time reading. So I think I earned those feelings. Sometimes I forget people arent comfortable with my bluntness.

    So I can understand their feelings, and I dont blame them for their opinions.

    Today I commited my brother to a secure unit , so I am not in denial of how life works.


  4. I find it interesting that many of us end up at the same conclusions about some questions associated with the chase.
    I wonder what all those people who dont post think? Are their thoughts similar to ours? About people who dont post, is this like in school where people didnt participate in discussion because they were afraid of what others thought of their ideas?

    What an interesting social experiment…


    • Well Deb, lets take that social experiment one step further. Would we recognize the correct solution if we knew it ahead of time but had no confirmation from Fenn or proof of the chest being discovered? Who from this blog think they would recognize it?


  5. As I prepare to exit the chase, I plan to leave one last solution which is an application of my book. It was intended to be my second book, and as Lee Iacocca said before he left Chrysler, “It is nice to hit a home run when it is your final turn at bat”

    Follow my adventure or in this case “prediction” of where the treasure lies on my blog www.findingfenn.com/#!My-Final-at-BatThe-Home-Run/cam/55d5dc570cf2083e080b014d

    in the days to come. You won’t be disappointed!


    • @The Wolf, I’ll be sad to see you Exit Wolf, as I always enjoy your input… Your blog has outstanding ideas. As a matter of fact your latest baseball post ties perfectly to Forrest’s Whitey Ford SB. The children’s book cover art displays large letters H-R-H.
      Interestingly, I found “H-R-H Elizabeth” in the poem’s text which mirrors the highlighted gold QEII coin on the cover of TTOTC. In my solution there exists a large E L blaze in the ground in Elizabethan type script. When I mailed Forrest a photo of the butte and blaze he emailed me stating, “I must admit, you leave me speechless.”


      • Thank you Anna – I will miss you as well. You are an excellent seeker so coming from you that means a lot. I have several more relevant blog posts that I may or may not be able to release but I want to get my solution out first and go from there.

        Nice pickup on the baseball connection. The golf one (from that same post) I have is really good too – hint “heather”


      • Anna,
        Thank you for the very kind words again over at Dal’s. I couldn’t reply because I have been placed on moderation and Goofy is deleting any relevant post. I asked Dal for an explanation and he didn’t have the balls to explain. So I assume I must have hurt Goofy’s feelings (he likes feeling important and I must have challenged his everflawed reasoning). His antics explains why the A-team has relocated over here. You know when Deb has been moderated the man has lost his mind. 😉


        • Wolf, you are most welcome. And I do think your solves have been terrific, can’t figure out why you and Deb were moderated. 42 and I no longer care if we get moderated anywhere and continue to give away our best info. hoping like you do that someone will benefit from our effort. Forrest once stated he had something special reserved for the one who correctly solved the poem, even if they don’t find the gold. Do you think he would actually be good for his word on that?


          • Thank you very much Anna,

            I thought it was for the one who solved the poem and found the chest, however I think that he should give the first to solve it something regardless of whether they get it. Solving is the ultimate challenge, the chest is just the result.

            Makes me wonder how he would reward that person if they nailed the solution without the chest. Interesting situation, I don’t think he thought of everything in that case. – ha!


        • I’ll bet I know why – cuz your didn’t answer Goofy when he posted this –

          on August 16, 2015 at 10:20 pm said:

          So Wolf, you think the poem tells us Fenn is lying about the bracelet, and tells us why he is lying??
          I’ll bet you didn’t see it.


          • into,
            You are probably correct, that is his classic baiting tactic – tries to put words in your mouth. If he can get a “yes” he will delete you.

            Anyway, my blog posts have answered the bracelet question.


          • Wolf –

            Quite awhile ago – I was e-mailed by Dal – and told to take it down a notch when I was mad at what someone had said to me. Geeez – at least here, Bob and I have the pleasure of sparring. Did I spell that right?

            So now you are an official member of the A Team.


    • Jdiggins- I dont know if you seemed allecy to me or not because I dont know what allecy means. and, Im not looking it up because I have enough words in my vocabulary to keep me in trouble. to me, no apology is necessary in blog world. there is a certain freedom in this that is found nowhere else. I did have a good night, thank you.


  6. Begin it where warm waters halt.

    This is how I interpret this clue:
    Begin “it” [at the place] where warm waters halt.

    The emphasis is on”it” or better explained: “IT” begins at this place. There are 5 instances of “it” and the solution of the poem requires “it” to be understood to find the treasure. Once you follow the progress of “it” through the clues you will discover “it” in the end. Return to the start where “it” began to understand how to use “it” to locate the treasure at the end.

    I am sure that makes absolutely no sense to anyone, thanks to my poor way of attempting to incite thought, but I thought I would try anyway…

    ok Chris start your rant! 😉


  7. Hello, bob. I am very aware of that information, but thank you for pointing it out! 🙂
    I was merely chatting with into on her recent comments.
    Have a happy day! 🙂


    • ok sorry folks! I see no need to discuss further then, a title for the poem and what relevance it may have in content and mysterious disappearance. my bad!
      carry on


        • into- the fact that the title to the poem does not appear in TTOTC. it was omitted for a good reason, too big of a hint.

          do you think Newsweek made up that title? then what of the other places the title is present? they made it up too?

          granted, the Newsweek piece does state the treasure is buried in New Mexico which is an assumption, but normally journalists do not invent titles to poems. as to who made initial contact for the story of course I dont know. did FF send the poem to Newsweek with that title? or, did Newsweek contact FF asking for permission to publish? either way it seems to me if FF did not want a title attached to his poem then through proofreading that blunder would not have gone to print. and, if a blunder has never been corrected.

          i found two separate sites that read..”Where The Treasure Lies by Forrest Fenn” using wordplay it can mean many things.
          1. a straightfoward title to the poem which sends the searcher outdoors. that is simply where the treasure is.
          2. use of the word “Where” that could correspond with the word “where” from the line in the poem…I can keep my secret where. meaning using a comma ….Where, The Treasure Lies by Forrest Fenn. in this case “where” is a specific place.
          3. Lies… as in untruths. the poem contains lies as to where the treasure is.
          4. by Forrest Fenn… the treasure lies next to FF. as in near him.

          see why the title has disappeared?


          • Bob –

            In my lifetime I have had a lot of interaction with “journalists”.

            It is extremely rare for them to get everything right. Just look at the news articles we have read about Fenn. It is rare that they get everything right and when they do – we applaud them – and say finally someone cared.

            Possibly one of the reasons they make mistakes so often is they are under pressure and have major deadlines to meet. They don’t have the luxury like we do , of checking each and every detail.

            Forrest is a detail oriented person. He would not have placed a “title” on his web page if it were wrong. Perhaps along the way – he changed the title when he sent it to Newsweek – but then why not tell us?

            I just happen to think the way he organized the poem in the book is very telling – without any “Title” at all. So – even if you think the title is different than “THE POEM” (all in caps)
            the fact of the matter is – He left it out of the book.

            Why did he do that Bob ?


          • into – he did that because “Where The Treasure Lies by Forrest Fenn” is title to the gold and or poem.

            and as for journalists having the luxury? of checking facts? i’m pretty sure it is a journalists RESPONSIBILITY to get the facts right. not luxury. any news story ever written begins with the facts. Brian Williams of NBC has been furloughed for misrepresentation of facts. it is utterly impossible to blame a journalist for placing that title on that article about FF’s poem in Newsweek. this would be a grest question to ask FF at Jenny Kiles.
            as for THE POEM being the title on his web page well, that in itself is further proof that the original title needed to be removed. (this is fun into. I always enjoy arguing with you because its easy for me to win) lol


          • I love sparing with you too Bob – and the only thing I need to win is the TC.

            You are so funny – how you streeeetch the truth Bob.

            It would be a good question for Jenny’s site. 🙂


          • into- the correct spelling for the word sparring as in the context of your statement is sparring.

            sparing would be the past tents of spare.

            i win again


          • Dang that spell check anyway.

            Ok then Bob – I vote to make you searcher of the month for the wackiest, most far out, wayward, unbelievable, and unimaginable,…………solves.


          • Ha! That is really funny Bob!

            Now I know why I love this forum so much. Smart people that know how to have fun!


  8. K. I’m curious into….

    But a thought comes to mind.
    You said no title to the poem in the book. Is there/are you aware of a title to the poem otherwise?

    Critical thinking 101, sorry… 🙂


  9. Fenn has said the poem is difficult but not impossible, yet he says we need to learn where warm waters halt and that we are over complicating it.

    I believe based on those two consistently made statements that it is a natural tendency to over imagine and over complicate the beginning and or shoe horn the solution to make it fit, that is why he said:
    “Some searchers overrate the complexity of the search. Knowing about head pressures, foot pounds, acre feet, bible verses, Latin, cubic inches, icons, fonts, charts, graphs, formulas, curved lines, magnetic variation, codes, depth meters, riddles, drones or ciphers, will not assist anyone to the treasure location, although those things have been offered as positive solutions. Excellent research materials are TTOTC, Google Earth, and/or a good map.f ”

    I believe the poem is difficult to solve because there are some tricky but straight forward parts of the poem that we may over look as too simple or we make assumptions without fully exploring all options. Something a kid would not do because they interpret things more literally.

    WWWH is likely relatively simple and straight forward. So much so we all ignore it because it has been 5 years and surely someone would have thought of that, so it is glanced over. I say this because Fenn confirmed within the first 4000 emails roughly or the first year of searching that two separate people had got the first two clues correctly. It seems to reason that initially seekers would have tried to keep it more straight forward and there has been no progress since then. So why were they able to get it then when we are having trouble today with so much more information available? Overcomplicating it is the only explanation. Yet how can it be so difficult?

    My belief is we are not thinking like a kid. We make assumptions. Like “put in” is a nautical term and means “go to a port” – but since this is land, we ignore that and stop searching an on to the next idea. The trick to poem we need to overcome is our own mind!


    • Everyone seems to think this means water physically stopping. I see it as water no longer being water. (and I don’t mean ice or steam)
      For example: the big mine spill that turned the water yellow last week. Would you consider that yellow stuff to be water? Or would you call it Poison?
      It is no longer water. It stopped being water. It halted.
      There is a definition out there that relates to the chase, I believe.


      • LuckyDog,
        Your interpretation could very well be onto something. You may have read my AS (arsenic) post which links to cancer.

        My interpretation to WWWH is extremely simple, literal and logical and uses two meanings of the word – one for the beginning and one for the end. Thus we use the beginning to define the end, that is why one needs to figure out what WWWH means. It is not only for the start but rather for the more important end.


        • My interpretation points to specific locations. Picking the correct one is the hard part. As Chris said, “if you have all the relevant info found throughout the poem that defines the location, then you solved the first clue and you will have the correct location.”
          There are many possibilities North of Santa Fe.


        • Wolf,
          I have been very impressed by your writings. Very well researched and thought out. In my opinion though, WWWH only has to do with the beginning. A starting point. It has nothing to do with the end. The coming full circle thing, is something completely separate, that is encountered along the way. A hint that you are on the correct tract.


          • I appreciate your kind words. Taking the time to put all my thoughts and research on paper seems worthwhile when I hear people say nice things like that.

            That said, you may be correct, I just offered a different concept based on following the clues. This was not a new concept or something I made up but rather something that just happened to work out with a solution I just completed. I hope to share it soon.

            Warning- It has a twist, it is more of a prediction than a search story so brace yourself for something different. I might have to wait until Yates goes on vacation first though! ha!


    • WWWH is likely relatively simple and straight forward

      simple and straightforward based on what? you are making a complete guess and have nothing to base it on. what is the appeal of doing that exactly, it doesnt help you or me or anyone else if you are serious about figuring this out

      what isnt complicated is what F means by some people have got the first clue, and in some instances he says they didnt know it. what isnt complicated is what he means by the first clue

      the first clue is the correct geographical location, where you begin. if you have the correct location … if you can circle that spot on a map .. then guess what, you have the first clue

      warm waters halt refers to where you begin, and where you begin is the first clue. wwwh refers to it, but it isnt the first clue because that is not enough info to define the location

      if you have all the relevant info found throughout the poem that defines the location, then you solved the first clue and you will have the correct location

      to define the first clue, it is the location. if you can state the location, then you have the first clue. it is possible for someone to state the correct location and know that because they’ve solved all the info in the poem … it is also possible to state the correct location and >>not know it<< if you havent solved the poem info

      if someone mentions the correct location to Forrest, then they got the first clue, because thats what the first clue is … a location.

      and F will say, they got the first clue …and he may also say, i dont think they know it


        • no i mean all relevant info for the first clue (starting point)

          the canyon down and hob have all their own relevant info because they are each their own location. just like the first clue, information for each is also scattered throughout the poem

          your question raises the important point though, that if you’ve solved enough info in the poem to identify a particular location, that location may not be the first clue, but by proxy it can be used to surmise where the first clue is, and then you can continue to dig out info which confirms the poem also has information identifying that location of the first clue

          this would be because, imo and as you suggested, the locations are not far from each other


          • thanks Chris.

            The reason i am asking is that i have identified a “name” .The difficulty i am facing is that the “name” is in different locations as different geographic features.
            trying to figure it out which one is the starting point.


      • “simple and straightforward based on what? you are making a complete guess and have nothing to base it on. what is the appeal of doing that exactly, it doesnt help you or me or anyone else if you are serious about figuring this out” Chris

        Old on there Bubba Looey! Have you been on vacation? Where have you been the last two weeks? I have pumped out about 10,000 words in 18 posts that explains where I got that from. You aren’t going German Guy on us are you? ha! – the stress of the search can do that to people. Get in a yoga pose and take a deep breath and exhale, relax. Just joking! But the search can do that to people.

        I believe it can help someone because it is a different opinion and new view point – never been said before and how can that not help? Fresh ideas are always good,

        If you have a different opinion of why the searchers early on in the chase got the first two clues correct I am all ears.


        • MJ,
          Fenn inferred there are two many people to count who have the first clue correct (it was those with the first two clues that are rare). That does provide some evidence that the first clue is a State.

          However, I propose “treasures bold” bold meaning to highlight. Fenn spelled “highliht” incorrectly on his TFTW treasure map which means treasures or the Treasure State of Montana could be the first clue.

          That would mean the hint of riches could be “Riches” like “new” Rich = Richard Blake (our sun expert) and “old” could be Richard Weatherill who he spelled incorrectly in his book as well. That is why I believe Fenn keeps talking about that $250 bracelet, and why getting it back may not be that important to him but the make of the bracelet is. This caused quite a few people to get upset, but think about it, how many photos do you see him wearing that bracelet? So I can keep my secret “wear” could be the secret of Richard Weatherill.

          There is another “Rich” I have not mentioned but is key to hoB.

          I treat misspellings in Fenn’s memoir as potential hints and must be accounted for when producing a solution. Not all would agree with this because it would wipeout 99% of the solutions. But if you can do it in a (non-stretched) manner it boosts confidence and may help you understand or solve the clues.


          • I believe the reason why searchers that can correctly get 2 clues is because they don’t have a list of clues a basic as
            2.canon down
            4.no place for the meek
            if it was that easy 99% of us would of already found the end of his rainbow. After realizing that then you can get to the hard work of discovering the first clue and if your good maybe more. That is why I believe its rare to get to the second clue. If you have a list like above its best to just scrap it and start over.


  10. Did you find the treasure? For me we all have ideas, the proof would be a treasure chest in our hands. I know you are going off the premise that Forrest awards you the treasure, many of us have thought that also.

    Here is the big but…lol
    He keeps telling me, ” The treasure is in the mountains north of Santa Fe. ”

    I have what I am thinking is wwwh , but in the end its finding the treasure in the mountains. 🙂


  11. Someone said recently that we begin high and continue on a downward path in elevation. i’m convinced this is true and have decided to take climing lessons. i found these guys in England, and asked them if they offered group rates so if anyone is interested, i believe climing skills are a must we can get a good deal.


    on topic


    • notice the leader of the expedition demonstrates the “guttering” technique. not many mountain climers have mastered that. and, of course when they all fall, that was staged for the camera for dramatic effect. nobody got hurt.


    • bob – It was sad when I read,…in The Story of E*,…that E* met her end,…when she DIED LAUGHING,…while watching the Monty Python clip you posted. But it was good that she called “Search Buddy” on Brad again,…before she did:


      But Forrest said something,…in that latest Santa Fe New Mexican video,…about NOT climbing 14,000 ft. (or higher?) mountain peaks,…didn’t he??? Well,…DIDN’T HE???


      • E- well, of course FF didnt clime the mountain. he didnt have to, he just placed the chest in his special spot. only searchers have to start at the beginning. FF started at the end.


    • 49 dollers – Thank you for that info.,…Mr. Very Big Researcher! And here is a tidbit right back at ‘ya. Did you know that the solidiers stationed at Mammoth Hot Springs in the fort used to walk to Gardiner? And I think you will enjoy this EXTENSIVE link,…about prospectors in Yellowstone and beyond (there are at last two references in it to folks with the last name of Brown):




      • 49 dollers – From that link:

        We had great discussions in the evening as to where we were, some thinking we were on the North Snake river, and others that we were on the Madison. The map which I had, represented the North Snake river as running around and leading to the northeast of the South Snake, and these streams seemed to run that way. In reality, we were at the forks of the Fire Hole river, a branch of the Madison.

        In the morning (September 10th), we continued our journey down the main river, crossing the east fork just above the junction. The weather looked stormy and threatening. The main river was about fifty yards wide, its valley very narrow, with high, rocky hills on either side covered with pine, and the general course westerly. After traveling about five miles, rain came down heavily, and we were forced to go into camp on the river, and at the head of what appeared to be a cañon.

        In the evening, during an interval of calm, I went forward on the trail across the mountain to explore. In about one and half miles I came to the foot of the cañon, [p. 134] when I perceived that the country opened out into a large basin [Madison Valley], through which the main river ran.

        And then they built the Hebgen Dam,…in 1910,…and ruined everything,…like that “cañon” down (See: that they took “IT” into what trappers also called, “The Burnt Hole”) 😉


        • 49 dollers – Why does that story about Electric Peak make me think of Forrest’s hat,…in his Scrapbook 125? And also of a certain BLAZE,…which I marked here,…on a topo map,…where Forrest and Donnie were “Looking for Lewis and Clark” (on a horse named, “Lightning”). And I had not read that link,…thank you,…but I have considered the source of it,…extensively (meaning Aubrey Hanes,…shown at the bottom of the link):

          Aubrey L. Haines, Yellowstone Place Names : Mirrors of History, University Press of Colorado, 1996, pp. 99-102

          Who also wrote/edited this popular tome,…often read by none other than Forrest Fenn (which he mentions in that same story above):


          And I like that we are playing “Dueling Resources”. 🙂


    • helpful hint to all searchers…dont ever team up with 49 dollers for a search, especially if he asks to borrow money from you because that would place 49 dollers in your pocket and if you get attacked by bears and killed well then, you failed…and had 49 dollers in your pocket and died. theres a moral there somewhere i kind of lost it. never mind


      • Bob – You win “Funniest Searcher” of “The Thrill of the Chase”,…not just the year. Hands down. You always crack me up. And your humor comes from your SUPERIOR intelligence,…See Also: the Monty Python team and the late Robin Williams. Thank you, Bob. 🙂


          • Bob – You may regret your lack of generosity,…when Dwayne “The Rock” is standing there,…acting as the security guard,…at The Chase Victory Party entrance gate. Let’s see,…which GOLD nugget will I keep,…to NOT give to you,…as payment for your perfect and funny scripts,…that you WOULD HAVE written,…for the Academy Award-winning movie? 😉



          • Bob, did you loan out your hard earned money? I thought you saved all that to buy more mac n cheese? 🙂 Gold in a box.

            Thats about as close as most of us(me) will get to gold. LOL

            You have made the search a fun place over the years Bob. 🙂


          • thanks Deb, i appreciate that. that was my goal…to entertain. sure, some clue discussion too. its just been a lot of fun for me.


  12. Everyone – I guess running on “E”,…can be a daring adventure also!:


    “It’s been a bad day, I mean besides my hair. It’s the last date to get my driver’s license renewed or take both the stupid written test, and the driver’s exam. Just because I’m over eighty I have do it every year.

    In my rush to get over to the MVD I ran out of gas. It was right in the middle of the busiest street in town, and because I forgot to plug my idiot phone in I had to just sit there until the honks brought every cop in town to my “location.” Big deal, you’d thought I robbed a bank or something.

    A cab brought me home and I’m resting comfortably by Tesuque and my warm little fire, but I guess they towed my car to the Walmart parking lot. That’s ok because I don’t ever plan to drive again. I’ll just stay home and keep my eye on the telephone lines.”

    I think Forrest’s forgetting to get gas in the Jeep was subconsciously intentional. I think he wanted to have fun with the written test,…finding unique ways to answer questions,…like, “Sex: Not Very much.” And I would like to let him know,…by virtue of this post,…that he is more than welcome to borrow my Ferrari 458 Spider,…to take the driving test. I would just ask that he not bump the curb and roll the stop signs,…like he usually does. I hope the “MVD” examiner likes to go fast around the turns:



  13. So I’m makin spaghetti for lunch today and watchin my pot of warm water waitin for it to boil. The warm water halted, and then boiled. Get it ? It’s the opposite of what everyone has been discussing on the subject of WWWH. Not from warm to cold, the other way, warm to hotter. Boiling River, YNP.


    • Bob – I agree:


      Geysers are hot springs with constrictions in their plumbing, usually near the surface, that prevent water from circulating freely to the surface where heat would escape. The deepest circulating water can exceed the surface boiling point (199°F/93°C). Surrounding pressure also increases with depth, much as it does with depth in the ocean. Increased pressure exerted by the enormous weight of the overlying water prevents the water from boiling. As the water rises, steam forms. Bubbling upward, the steam expands as it nears the top of the water column. At a critical point, the confined bubbles actually lift the water above, causing the geyser to splash or overflow. This decreases pressure on the system, and violent boiling results. Tremendous amounts of steam force water out of the vent, and an eruption begins. Water is expelled faster than it can enter the geyser’s plumbing system, and the heat and pressure gradually decrease. The eruption stops when the water reservoir is depleted or when the system cools.


      • E- all that info and you missed my point…spaghetti lol.
        No seriously though do you recall anyone on any blog thinking that WWWH is on the hotter side of warm, rather than cold? I don’t. And of course, beyond Boiling river, in the canyon down is Rescue Creek where I found the toy chest (geocache).


          • E- the only way a Mexican standoff can happen is if you and JC shadow me to Telluride, follow in my footsteps as I lead you to the bronze box. Because if you don’t, I’m taking that chest and goin in peace.

            See ya suckers!!!


          • Bob – I can hear that spaghetti western music playing already! It’s always nice to have a Mexican Standoff at the local cemetery.


          • Bob – That’s JC and I,…just having a little fun in the sun,…before we shadow you in Telluride,…but I’m sure it will be, “worth the cold”! 🙂


          • All this talk of Spaghetti Westerns is making me hungry. There might have been a bigger market if the name Pizza Western had stuck instead. Did you know that in Japan they were called Macaroni Westerns?

            Merging “the good, the bad and the ugly” with pizza reminds me of a joke. 🙂

            What do pizza and “bumpin’ uglies” have in common, you ask?

            Well…when it’s good…it’s REALLY good.

            And when it’s bad…it’s still pretty good. 🙂

            (From across the room)

            “Mom? What does bumpin’ uglies mean?”


          • E- that’s a good idea, the showdown at lone tree cemetary. Convenient for all involved, I’ll see to it that you and JC recieve proper burials, after I cash in a couple of gold coins from the box in town.


          • Come on now, Bob. We’ve never been enemies before and I don’t plan on starting now. I figure the best way to avoid a fight is just to make sure we’re not searching in the same spot…just in case we were to both stumble upon the treasure at the exact same moment. In that case there might be a fight. So…let’s avoid that. Personally, I’ve never spent one second looking for Forrest Fenn’s treasure in a cemetery so the chances of us having a gunfight meeting in a cemetery are slim to none. Now if I happen to be minding my own business and someone starts shooting at me…make no mistake…I am willing and able to return fire. However…first and foremost…I believe in Peace…but I’m also a realist and I have learned through experience that “giving peace a chance” doesn’t always work. Sad but true.
            You know the old saying, “It takes two to tango”. Well…it also takes two to be friends.


          • JC- yeah, I know. It was E that dragged you and I into a Mexican standoff. I know it won’t come to that. But it’s nice to know, you won’t shoot first.

            Hey I’m goin penguin huntin in Telluride! It’s fun, for camo we wear a tuxedo and an orange cap of course.


          • Got my outfit out of lay-a-way yesterday, don’t I look sharp? I believe the bronze box will seek me! Ha ha, and it doubles for penguin huntin! With my trusty over-n-under and penguin load I’ll bag an emporer for Christmas dinner and a few little blues just for fun! Ha ha.


  14. Hello All,
    long time since I posted here. I hope all of you are doing well 🙂

    I figured I would stop in and give my WWWH idea to you folks and see what you think.

    What I believe WWWH to be is the Firehole river in Yellowstone. I know…I know…this river does Not Halt…However it “halts” something. Mr f and his family spent their summers in YNP and they fished this river many times. During the summer months after the spring run off this river begins to warm up during the heat of summer along with thermal features adding heat to the river. Trout prefer water temps in the 40`s to 60 degree range. The Firehole will get into the 80 degree range and therefore…too warm for trout and the trout seek cooler waters in tributary creeks/rivers that stay at a lower temperature.
    Therefore…Where Warm Waters Halt…..Trout.


  15. From www.wherewarmwatershalt, the countdown clock…..0 8 2 2
    Oh (0) wait(8) to(2) to(2)
    “Oh wait to to”
    “Oh! Wait Toto!”

    When toto jumped from the balloon, and Dorothy chased, missing her ride.


  16. inthechaseto:
    E* –

    That really is an awesome necklace – that ought to make your gizz really mad.

    Forrest has a less fashion, more original of that necklace on the wall in his office. It was amazing to see an original artifact like that.


      • E- ok that’s a fish.
        A rainbow is an optical and meteorological phenomenon that is caused by both reflection and refraction of light in water droplets resulting in a spectrum of light appearing in the sky. It takes the form of a multi colored arc. Rainbows are caused by sunlight and always appear in the section of sky directly opposite the sun. Now, pay attention E. Since forest has no suns only dotters, then his perception of a rainbow due to optical erosion, is a ball of string.
        Try to keep up E. Maybe you could take notes. When germanguy isn’t looking, take his notes. I won’t tell.


      • Bob – Even though I can’t post it on Dal’s blog,…and win that AWESOME and powerful necklace Forrest made,…I have written my Search Story in my head. Well,…it’s actually not MY search story,…it belongs to the Fishy you saw in the photo above:

        I Am Forrest’s Rainbow

        The story of my long and harrowing journey,…alone in there,…and with my treasures bold,…from the beginning,…the source,…WWWH,…when I took it canyon down,…too far to walk,…so I swam, fast,…downstream (since it is “The Chase”, after all). And then I put in,…below the HOB,…which was no place for the meek. Because the B stands for the notorious and ever present Brown Grizz,…who has chosen Forrest’s favorite fishing hole for his permanent abode (and so the end is ever drawing nigh, but this I know). Which is also where me and mine go to spawn. Now the no paddle up your creek part is inaccurate,…because unlike our bretheren, the salmon,…we do not die after creating our progeny (but, technically,…we don’t head back upstream until much later, either,…so it still kind of works, I guess). What with all those heavy loads and waters high,…why bother? I like to save my energy for playing Tug of War,…at the end of Forrest’s fishing line. I did like this stanza he wrote,…to describe my all important swim:

        So why is it that I must go
        And leave my trove for all to seek?
        The answer I already know,
        I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.

        My “trove”,…the “riches new and old”,…the songs of my Ancestor Rainbows,…now hidden amongst the riffles,…in the gravel. It’s what I live for! And to my offspring fry, I say, “I give you title to the gold”! Oh,…and my best advice,…don’t fall for those oddly shaped stone fly nymphs,…what looks too good to be true,…usually isn’t real.


          • That Hardy Zenith cost $600 !!!
            That’s crazy! I still use the fiberglass rod and Martin 61 reel I bought new in 1974. Of course I don’t do a lot of fly fishing, mostly spin casting. I showed it (my old fiberglass rod) to the proprietor of The Humble Fly in Cody all he said was…”that’s a classic.” Not wanting to embarrass me in front of his local customers. I didn’t tell them about the rainbows Zelda and I caught below Pathfinder because we poached them. Yes, no license. Had to be sneaky and fast. Only fished for 30 minutes, landed two…literally I mean beached them. No net no waders no creel no vest. In my pathfinder story with fish picture, I’m only wearing jeans and t shirt. We did release the fish too, can’t cook evidence.


        • E- your story was supposed to be funny. Did I miss the funny part?
          If you show up at the fishin hole wearin that gawdy god-awful necklace, now that would be funny!
          You don’t even need a fishing pole, just dangle that necklace in the water and the trout would latch on to a bead or trinket like it was their last meal. You’d be catching fish by the bucket full.


  17. Hello again from Rebel ,
    IMO , I also believe a series of numbers can be helpful , maybe pointing to individual letters or words . Take for example the capital “B” in the word Brown . If you split the ” B ” apart , you can get 1 and 3 , or 13 , from the letter “B” . That’s just a start . Hope some find this helpful .
    Good luck all !


  18. Hi searchers ,
    IMO , Begin it where warm waters halt , is a direction to be taken within the poem , and not to a real landmark , but only if you know where to start .
    And take it in the canyon down , is also a direction within the poem . If you know where to start and follow these directions precisely , IMO , you will find information that will help solve the poem , and lead you to the treasure .
    Not far , but too far to walk , I believe is referring to a circle . If you walk a circle it’s not far around , depending on it’s size . But it is also too far , as it is never ending .
    Put in below the home of Brown . Put ” N ” below the home of Brown . I have some ideas on this which I’m still working on .
    These are just my thoughts and OPINIONS ONLY ! I do not have the treasure .
    Good luck to all searchers . Maybe this treasure will be found soon , so we can all rest , both physically and mentally .


      • Astree – And on Forrest’s comment,…and Wishing Wells:

        The tradition of dropping pennies in ponds and fountains stems from this. Coins would be placed there as gifts for the deity to show appreciation.

        In November 2006 the “Fountain Money Mountain” reported that tourists throw just under 3 million pounds sterling per year into wishing wells.[4]

        This may be a left over from ancient mythology such as Mímir’s Well from Nordic myths, also known as the ¨Well of Wisdom¨, a Well that could grant you infinite wisdom provided you sacrificed something you held dear. Odin was asked to sacrifice his right eye which he threw into the well to receive not only the wisdom of seeing the future but the understanding of why things must be. Mímir is the Nordic god of wisdom, and his well sits at the roots of Yggdrasil, the World Tree which draws its water from the well.


  19. .

    astree: Since the last mention of the Themistocles ( well, the mist is definitely relevant ),


    …. those ethics,…in the mist

    Okay, got it in the follow-up …

    Today’s featured picture ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page )

    Dense fog … is a collection of liquid water droplets… closer to the Earth’s surface than clouds and denser than mist.

    Begin it where warm wateRS halt

    From today’s featured article ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page )

    Rani Mukerji

    HI E




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